Revolutionizing Healthcare and Beyond: Unleashing Blockchain's Transformative Potential with Dinidh O'Brien | S3 E05

Dinidh: 1:10

So I've always been very much into technology, even from a young age. As many people who were in the space will relate. Maybe it started with computer parts across my bedroom, building computers, and learning how machines work and how they're put together. I've never been a coder. I understand codes to a certain degree, but I'm really not a coder per se.

Joeri: 1:31

Hello everyone and welcome to The Web3 CMOs Stories Podcast, season 3, episode 5. My name is Joeri Billast and I'm your podcast host, and today I'm so excited to be joined by Dinidh. Hello Dinidh, how are you?

Dinidh: 1:47

Hello Joeri, I'm doing very well and thank you very much for the invitation. I'm very much looking forward to our discussion today.

Joeri: 1:54

Happy to have you, Dinidh. So, guys, if you don't know, Dinidh full name, Dinidh O'Brein, is a technological futurist with more than 10 years of experience. He started consulting blockchain and, as a market executive, he's the head of public and international relations at Donate Your Data Foundation and Data Lake, two organizations working at the intersection of Metec and Web3. His work means that he frequently engages with some of the leading institutional and public bodies in Europe, such as the European Commission and European Parliament, on the implementation of new technologies such as blockchain and AI in a way that respects privacy and data rights. Whoa, that's an impressive intro already, so I'm curious. Dinidh, one of my first questions is always can you share a bit about your background, your journey into the world of crypto marketing, and then maybe also what led you to found one of the first commercial companies to accept crypto payments?

Dinidh: 3:02

Yeah, absolutely So. I've always been very much in technology, even from a young age, as many people who were in the space will relate. Maybe it started with computer parts across my bedroom, building computers and learning how machines work and how they're put together. I've never been a coder. I understand codes to a certain degree, but I'm really not a coder per se. Where I've always fallen more on the sides is communications, marketing and public and international relations, more so in the last few years.

Dinidh: 3:32

So how I got into blockchain and bitcoin was quite a while ago. It was about 10, 11 years ago now, so I think 2011. I was offered my first bitcoins. I was selling a graphics card and I kind of said, no, this is fake money, I think this might be a scam. And instead of 40 bitcoins, I sold it for $100 a fiat. So obviously a mistake there. But quickly after that, I think in 2012, 2013, I started buying my first bitcoins and from then on have been in the web three space And it kind of coincided.

Dinidh: 4:03

How I got into let's say it more professionally was I was working in startup consulting at the time and actually launched a printing company, a direct to consumer printing company in the US, which was Eco Focus and trying to be more on the tech side. So we were working with NFC and AR and some of the, let's say first, digital and well in real life campaigns, with this digital layer added, and it was a very natural step for me to then start looking at cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. So we were using, for example, nfc's to track production in production line and manufacturing, using then blockchain to verify serial numbers of products that are built this sort of thing. But then, as I said, i thought it was very natural to start accepting cryptocurrencies as payment, and you know this was 2013. So not a lot of people were actually using cryptocurrency at the time, so it wasn't wildly successful, perhaps a little bit too early, but a personal milestone and something that you know.

Dinidh: 5:02

Even when the CEO of the company finally saw the returns that we were getting, he said it was a good idea and was pleased, even if maybe it wasn't you know tons of volume, but yeah, so for me it's always been very interesting in taking, let's say, existing or traditional sectors, traditional markets, and bringing in emerging technologies where it makes sense. And I always say this personally. Our company always says this you know, blockchain is just a tool, and if it's not the right tool for the job, you don't need to force it to be just because it's a hype word. But when it is the right tool for the job, it should be evident and it should have real, tangible value and bring fundamental use to whatever project it is. And that's really what I've always done in my career is find the ways that emerging technology like blockchain, web3, augmented reality, how they can actually fit in and be useful to traditional sectors.

Joeri: 5:49

Right, you just mentioned you are really really early in crypto, And then today, 2023. So there have been, I guess, a lot of challenges. But also, how have you been, you know, seen things change since then? Is it still so challenging? Because I hear still people dotting So?

Dinidh: 6:10

when we started a few years ago and we mentioned blockchain and we're talking to you have to remember very traditional sector of healthcare and that even though there's a lot of exciting advancements and technological developments happening, it does move quite slowly and it's very risk averse because they're dealing with patients and very private data.

Dinidh: 6:29

So we definitely had some pushback at first, but I will say that over the last couple of years, the more conferences I go to, the more conversations we're having with these stakeholders in traditional sectors, the more open people are becoming.

Dinidh: 6:41

I mean, if we're talking about blockchain and crypto at large, i have some deep concerns with the meme coin casino on Binance, smart Chain and other chains and how what they're really doing is just speculative investment for building it's Ponzi schemes Like I'm just going to be honest And they're just trying to basically find exit liquidity for the big bag holders.

Dinidh: 7:01

So I have some big concerns with how blockchain is being used in general when we're talking about cryptocurrencies, but when we're talking about the actual implementation, it is really taking holds and you may know as a European, but here in Europe we do have a European Commission, the European Parliament, which are aware and actually writing laws to implement blockchain in our everyday lives. So, within the next few years, we'll have EIDIS 2.0, which is the European EID regulation, And our identities will be digital and they will be self sovereign and they will be on the blockchain. So these are all technologies that are being recommended by the experts at the European Commission and implemented into law in the European Parliament, which, for me, if you read the direction and you look at the laws that are coming out right now to go into effect in the next two, three years, blockchain will be a part of our everyday life. Even if we don't see it, even if we don't know that our bank has switched to a digital ledger in the background, blockchain is definitely taking hold in a lot of traditional sectors.

Joeri: 7:57

Yeah, so blockchain is also an NFT and so on, used for access. So when we talk about medical data, I know privacy and stuff. That's something that is really important. The access aspect of blockchain How do you see? can you perhaps explain a bit more for audience How you see blockchain and Web3 technology being used to provide access to medical data and perhaps the impact it can have on healthcare?

Dinidh: 8:25

Yeah, so let's look at the fundamentals of blockchain and what it is. It's open, it's transparent and it is a way to ensure that two data sets that are the same remain the same and are obvious if someone is tampered with that. Let's say the fundamental of what blockchain is, and when we're talking about access to medical data, the privacy implications are enormous. If you think about genomics data and what can be done with that, it is the most personal data, and so what we're trying to do is take what blockchain really does well, and that is accountability and transparency and security in terms of ensuring data is not, you know, modified or hacked or anything in the middle, and we're applying that to the, let's say, chain of command. When it comes to data being from the end user, from the hospital to the patient giving their consent, all the way to the researchers, we can use it to actually track where the data has been. We can provide absolute legal proof that somebody has given that consent. We're using KYC methods, for example, but, as I mentioned, if we go to digital identities and this will all actually be very, very easy when it comes to the future But we're using it to ensure transparency and accountability. So, for example, we've created a consent system where patients can give consent legally to the use of their data for medical researchers. What that means is they don't have to trust us as some private company with a database of records in the background that they never see or have access to, or that's IP. We're putting this on an open blockchain and we can basically say listen, you want to donate your data? Wonderful, thank you. You can verify this on the blockchain. And, of course, when we're talking about patients who have zero Web3 experience, we're talking about GUIs that are very easy for them to use. All the blockchain stuff happens in the backgrounds And this is, to me, key for adoption.

Dinidh: 10:06

People don't need to, or are not going to be, signing up for a metamask. Your grandmother is not going to be signing up for a metamask, more than likely anytime soon, to manage her medical data. So we're all talking about front end familiarity in the front end, but what we can also say is listen. If you say, for example, one day you don't want your data to be used anymore and you revoke your consent, you don't need to trust us, and that our database has removed you, you can go to any node or any validator, any explorer, and you can see that transaction on the blockchain. So you don't have to trust companies, and this is a really big you know.

Dinidh: 10:37

Obviously we talk about trust and really it's the removal of trust. In blockchain, you don't have to trust private industry, and that's something that's really important for us, because even as a private company, we don't want to have to have that burden on us, and blockchain is actually why it's such a fantastic tool for us is it removes liability. We don't have to, you know, have our records submitted or our databases, you know, delved into. We can just say listen, you know, the audit is public and transparent every single time, in real time.

Joeri: 11:05

So in terms of providing, access.

Dinidh: 11:07

This is why it's important. We needed a legal way, a mathematically provable way, to allow people to comfortably and confidently consent to the use of their data and know that if they revoke it, then that was happening and they didn't have to trust us. And it may seem like not a direct link to research, but if you enable that access, if you, technologically speaking, allow people to have the confidence to donate or revoke their data, we're finding that people are 80 to 90 percent likely to do so when we're talking to them in hospitals, whereas if you look at the data studies that were done before, 30 to 40 percent of Polish people, for example, were willing to share their medical data under our system because it's accountable because it's transparent. We're looking at eight or nine out of 10 patients who have said yes, I'm happy to participate.

Joeri: 11:50

Right, yeah, you also know for your ethical practices. you know in the crypto, so you talk about the access and you know the privacy, but the ethical aspects are also important. There are not so many people talking about that. Can you elaborate a bit about how you're seeing the ethical aspects of crypto?

Dinidh: 12:10

Yeah, well, short answer, what ethical aspects of crypto? but, as I touched on earlier, you know, as we said in blockchain 10, 11 years by this point and you have to remember back in that day you know there weren't all of these meme coins or the shit coins, it was Bitcoin. Ethereum came along soon after that, but it was really about the fundamental aspects of blockchain technology, which was freedom and transparency and removing the need for trust in private, private industry and our financial transactions. And this is really, you know, for me as a, as a communicator, I've always been more on the philosophical side of things, anyway, and this is why I was so enamored, let's say, with blockchain in the first place, because it really solves the time old riddle of if you have two datasets, how can you make sure that they haven't been tampered with, other than checking everything. You know, at least at the beginning, it was very much a movement, a sociological, a philosophical movement to solve some of the true issues we have in society today. And then it just went absolutely crazy And, you know, we had BitConnect, we had Mt Gox, then we had all of these moments that, for me, reminded me that we had strayed so far from what originally was a socio-philosophical movement And, to be honest, the last few years have been a little bit depressing in seeing, you know, meme coins with zero fundamentals, zero use cases.

Dinidh: 13:25

They just have marketing and partnerships hitting hundreds of millions, if not billions, in market cap. But when you actually look behind the scenes and this is what I've been doing over the last, let's say, three to four years, is really being more heavily involved in the project side of things you actually see that the tactics that they're using are unethical. They're using shilling groups to fake hype, to create conversations that aren't happening. They're using market makers to pump up their value. They're using influencers who are doing their due diligence in quotation marks, but all they're doing is receiving 10,000 euros for few and says, ah, this is the next. You know gem 100x. It's different than all the rest And, of course, these practices have been used in typical marketing for who knows how long as well as you know kind of psychological tricks and tools. But I think in crypto it's a lot more pernicious and it's a lot more common And, to be honest with you, of the maybe 20, 30 projects that I've been either involved with or very close to in terms of the developers.

Dinidh: 14:27

There have only been three or four that I've actually come across that have said we're not going to go that way. We're not going to buy likes. We're not going to buy, you know, bots that are posting about our project everywhere. We're not going to fake the volume. We're literally here because we want to put out good projects and we're going to go the ethical way of building community, building fundamentals over hype and putting our time and effort and our talents into creating something of value for people, rather than finding bag holders for my exit liquidity, which is, to be honest, i'm not exaggerating 99% of the projects out there are literally just Ponzi schemes to find exit liquidity for developers. There are very few out there if you look at the thousands being created each month that actually have any use case or value. So for me, you know, when I joined Data Lake, i joined it because it was a tokenized project and they were working with blockchain And we made a very clear decision right at the beginning. We weren't. You know, i was quite strong on this.

Dinidh: 15:20

But I said we're not going to use the shilling groups, we're not going to use the great, great, great services, we're not even going to use Facebook because we're a data company and their data practices are awful.

Dinidh: 15:28

So going even to that extent of saying you know even the traditional ways to market, i don't think we can ethically do that. And instead going the route of building community and building really earning the marketing and the media that we get and the media coverage and you know, slogging through the conferences and giving presentation And you know it seems like maybe not the most efficient way when you look at meme coins here, making hundreds of millions, you know, just from using these unethical services. But at the end of the day, the party always stops And we've seen multiple crypto winners. We've seen multiple market crashes, but what people haven't actually seen yet and your listeners better prepare for this is the regulation crash that is going to happen. Governments are getting sick and tired of scammers, they're getting sick and tired of Ponzi schemes And, to be honest, i'm not a huge fan of the regulations that governments create in overall.

Joeri: 16:18

But at the end of the day, the crypto community deserves it over the last four or five years, to me personally, Yeah right, yeah, indeed, you know, when we talk about marketing and people look at these short time gains and they want to get rich And you know that's not what you know what you need to do. You mentioned it already about building a community, but that of course, takes time. You know giving value for myself And if you're new to Web 3, then you better look for those projects that really give a value instead of you know just something that is, there is a lot of noise and you talked about this China groups. That's not what we need to look at And unfortunately, there are so many scams out there, which makes it no harder for people to enter Web 3, because this, of course, you have to. There are also scams that you talked about at conferences, building community. So I guess the basic marketing fundamentals can maybe give an example of a successful strategy that we implemented and that you are doing maybe around the community or something else.

Dinidh: 17:24

Yeah, absolutely. So. I mean what we're finding most successful right now and it's actually personally something that I really love It is a collaboration between different projects in order to kind of create this mega effect, and, from the technological side, i love it because we're all doing different things. Some of it is a lot of overlap, though, right, and there are some people working on some incredible things out there. So, for example, data Lake we just partnered with GenomesDow, who are actually doing genomic sequencing services as an alternative to 23andMe and some of these other companies who are literally just selling your data to China and other nations. When you do the genomic tests And you sign up for this and you actually check the box that says this is fine, but it's buried in thousands of words of legal disclaimer so you don't actually realize it. But they're also creating, using blockchain technology, a DNA vault which actually allows people to own their own DNA, the data, and allows them to control access and actually know if it's again using blockchain, know if it's been tampered with, know if it's been accessed, and so you know.

Dinidh: 18:26

To go back to what I was saying, there were some really incredible projects working on some amazing things. Right now There's a discussion in the community and just to be maybe you're listeners haven't heard this term yet, but it's called DSI and it's Decentralized Science And it's basically the community of people who are applying the blockchain principles and blockchain technology to our scientific problems. And we're having this conversation right now, especially about traction and how to gain more mind share out there, and we've realized that actually a lot of us are doing the same things and we're working on the same things and you know we're putting. You know maybe we have one full time person on our marketing for 40 hours a week, but he multiplied that by you know a thousand projects in your 40,000 hours a week being spent really just on what is bringing attention to incredible technology. So for me, i'm really finding the most successful strategy that we have.

Dinidh: 19:13

And obviously we do Twitter competitions. We spent a lot of time on social media in general and the typical marketing stuff, but the synergy and the collaboration that I see in blockchain is absolutely unique. I've really not seen it in the private sector. So I was in luxury brands before this and maybe you would bring on a celebrity to do a special collection or something like that, but there was no collaboration between what would be traditionally considered competitors And what we're actually finding is that this collaboration, not only from a technological standpoint, but also from a marketing community standpoint, is so powerful Because, if there's one thing that I will say very positive about the crypto community, they support you hardcore. They're in telegram, they're making reaction gifts and like custom memes for your project, but they're actually really enthusiastic. And when you're building fundamental focus project, they're actually enthusiastic about your fundamentals.

Dinidh: 20:05

So we're seeing kind of these communities where they would maybe clash in other sectors or other areas. We're seeing them actually come together, collaborate and collide in a beautiful way where the noise is just exponentially multiplied because you have these two groups now and they not their success, but also yours, And so for us it may sound really straightforward but honestly, collaboration between projects and collaboration between those communities actually has an exponential effect that I've noticed when it comes to your marketing and your mind share.

Joeri: 20:37

It's interesting that you mentioned you know the notion of the side actually Paige Donnor. Maybe you know her from FrontierDAO, I do. She was also, I guess, on a podcast not so long ago, So actually, she also talked about that concept Of course today. You mentioned already a few times meme coins. At a certain moment you confine, you co-founded yourself in an educational meme coin, So education is important. Can you talk a bit about that?

Dinidh: 21:06

Yeah, so. So I want to preface this and I have no like embarrassment saying this our meme coin that I helped co-found Was actually scammed by one of the main depths right So and but talk about a learning experience for everyone.

Dinidh: 21:20

But but to be honest, like I'll give it just a little bit of background on that. So we, we got together just like a decolon, decentralized collective of people who all had this feeling like the, the crypto community And all of these nonsense coins were actually going to lead, as I said, to strict a regulation and potentially The end of crypto as we know it in the. I mean, obviously it's a technology, it can only be so regulated, so much, but at the end of the day, there is only a small portion of people willing to become criminals, you know, for for a meme coin, whereas now it's pretty much a free game. So anyway, we were, we were really concerned about where the market was heading and where the community is a whole worse heading, and so basically what we decided was listen, meme coins, for whatever reason, are popular in the same way. That means like they just capture attention. But what if it could actually have fundamental value and use cases? and so our two core pillars were charities. So we had we were a cat theme mean coin, and so part of the transactions We're going to be funding animal shelters and this sort of thing, but then also education, and we founded Oxford University Kitty So the project was called crypto kitty and cat theme. So we founded this basically Online educational course that went through all of the fundamentals of staying safe in crypto and looking for lock liquidity and doxed founders And fundamentals.

Dinidh: 22:36

Reading white papers. You know how to Make sure you stay safe, even operating with your computer So you don't get some sort of injector. You know malware who's changing wallet addresses in your metamask, all this kind of stuff. And you know I'll just step because people are probably wondering like how I got scammed? We were pushing for everything right and we're educating people about everything, but the human element is so hard to control and you know, before we had all the Schematics laid out for multi-sig on everything you know, making sure that nobody, one person, had all the permissions And pretty much the date when we were switching over to multi-sig and a new contract audited everything safe instead of sending the liquidity pool funds to the new contracts they were they were removed entirely. And you know we have been pushing for multi-sig, we've been pushing for all of these security measures but at the end of the day, you know, somebody still had enough Control over one wallet to cause serious issues.

Dinidh: 23:32

So even even when you're trying to mean it's quite ironic Even when you're trying to do an educational meme coin to keep people safe, you're open to, to this stuff. So I mean, this could have all solved, been solved if everything was Airtight right from the beginning. Right, but these things don't tend to happen that way. It's not a bunch of people in, you know, meeting rooms and office buildings making decisions for long-term value. It's a bunch of people on telegram going, hey, you know it'd be funny a meme coin, but let's make it not so Valueless as everyone else. So, but, yeah, so, but all that to say.

Dinidh: 24:03

You know these, these lessons for me now are hard-learned. I already knew them, i was already practicing most of them. But education does have the ability to keep people safe and obviously you know I mentioned some of the things that you can do to to do that. But I think, to be honest with you, it's a process and if you talk to anyone in crypto who's been around long enough, they've either been scammed or lost a wallet seed, or their exchange went down or got hacked, and you know. So the other thing that I really should mention you know, education is great. You should be knowing what you're getting into. In the same way, if you're gonna invest in the stock market, you should know you know what you're investing in.

Dinidh: 24:35

However, i think there are some questions about the centralization of crypto now, especially with these giant exchanges Binance, for example.

Dinidh: 24:42

If they got hacked, you know, forget mount gox That would be the absolute pinnacle of a crash for crypto.

Dinidh: 24:49

And so you know, you can, of course, try and protect yourself as an individual, but I think the blockchain community as a whole and at large have to have a real strong conversation about decentralization and and talk about, maybe, what's been going on in the last few years and to say the Reasoning why. At the end of the day, i believe this technology has incredible implications for humanity. It can solve true problems in society, but we have pushed it, and pushed it with these scams and just nonsense use case to the point where Governments are gonna say you know what, you can't be trusted with this. We're gonna regulate it, and I have the feeling that that regulation will not quite solve all of the Issues that blockchain has a potential to. So, if we don't fix this and if we don't educate people, but if we also don't really address the core issues and block chain, such as centralization, and basically everything's become Ponzi scheme. This technology could slip away from us in that sense.

Joeri: 25:40

Thank you for this honest testimonial because, yeah, it's really useful for people to day. Everyone can. If you're like you said, if you've been in crypto for some time, it's still, i would say, the jungle, or no people call it and okay It's. You're already so many years that you are in there, so you learn the lessons, so that's perhaps an advice for people starting off. No, be careful and see you know that you get value for what you invest in. Be careful with the projects. You were, of course, also learning at that moment. Is there a kind of to end with a positive note that dini? is there an advice that you can give to To marketers, entrepreneurs or maybe exciting transit are happening and you're not looking at the Web3 space and want to enter?

Dinidh: 26:28

Yeah, absolutely So. In terms of advice, as you mentioned, i'm quite big on the ethics of things and I would just say take the more difficult routes, which is the ethical route. It will maybe take longer, you're not going to see these stupid gains that meme coins are getting overnight, but you're building fundamental value and you're building long term value. And I will say that, for example, for me, even in my last project that got scammed, i was still following this pathway of ethical practices as much as I personally could. You can never control the actions of other people, but even though there were people from that original community who had lost money, they followed me to the next project because they knew that it wasn't my fault and that anything that I was working on would actually have fundamental value, but also have ethical value. And so, for anyone who maybe is already in marketing and in Web 3, i would kind of call them to join me in this and choose the more difficult but the more ethical path, because, as I said, we're talking about building long term fundamental value And if you're not working in just meme coins, you're actually working in a blockchain project in private industry, or even we're seeing blockchain in nonprofit industry and stuff like that. Your job is to build long term value. Your job is not to build. You know, obviously you have maybe revenue quotients for the quarters and stuff like that, but at the end of the day, it's long term value. And these hype mechanisms, these shillers people always get found out. And even a few months ago they released the price list for Telegram and Twitter influencers in the crypto space who were audited. You know the ones to be respected And it was just a price list of here's how much you can buy their positive review for. And a lot of people were a little embarrassed by that because they're like, oh, this person picked up our project. You know, they just thought it was so great. They want to talk about it And they're like, no, you paid 10,000. And you know, here's a database of everyone who participated. So in the end, people always find out And I think, at the end of the day, if you can say I'm doing an ethical job, i'm doing, you know, the right thing. This is what builds long term value, not just hype, and you know shillers and stuff like that.

Dinidh: 28:27

For anyone, let's say, who wants to get into Web three, i would say find a an area that you are passionate about and excited about. Almost all of them will have some sort of blockchain applications. I mean, even if you're just in like straight up digital advertising, for example, there are blockchain based versions of this now And they're much, much better than Google ads, which I've used for many, many years. So even if you're, let's say, just more interested in the typical marketing areas or advertising, there are projects for you. But if you have a passion for me it was helping people And I knew that the most impact I can make was was in healthcare, because that's affecting people every single day. And you know, surprise, surprise, there was the intersection of Web three and healthcare. So, find your passion, find what you really want to achieve, figure out where you want to have a place of impact And if there's already not a project there, build it. But I'm fairly confident that you know there are some incredible projects in every industry now that are using Web three technologies, blockchain technologies. So it's an exciting time. I mean, i know I maybe I come across a little pessimistic or a little bit complaining about the state of things, but it's because, even though I'm young, i'm actually an old timer in this industry. So, like, ah, back in my day, you know it was all philosophy and solving fundamental problems. It wasn't, you know, but at the same time, it is a very exciting time for blockchain. It is a very exciting time for Web three technologies, as you said.

Dinidh: 29:50

You had paged honor on talking about DCI. We are fully on board with the DCI movement And, in terms of trends I have to if she probably said the same thing DCI is a trend to watch because it is really going back to solving the fundamental problems in science, like publishing and funding and like, for us, healthcare data and access to innovation. So this, for me, is the big trend to watch And the most exciting one because it's, you know, even like space research or space exploration, fusion energy. There is, there is a DCI organization that we're company working on all of it. So really exciting time And I think we will see in the next few years really blockchain start to take hold. Even if we don't see the see it with our eyes. Our banks, our digital identity cards, our driver's license a lot of this stuff is going to be running on blockchain in the coming years.

Joeri: 30:40

Thanks, Dinidh. You mentioned the word help people. You have helped our listeners, you know, with all the insights you cundefined given. Even it was sometimes a bit more pessimistic, but it's always good to see both sides of the story. If people want to be in touch with you or follow you somewhere, where would you like to

Dinidh: 31:00

Yeah, you can find me pretty much on any platform with the username gradivis. So G R A D I V I S, twitter, mastodon, telegram, whatever. I'm all over under that handle and have been for a long time. So, yeah, i'm always happy to connect with people And if your listeners maybe, as you said, are trying to get into marketing and especially web three marketing, my DMs, my comments are always open And I really enjoy helping people discover new positions or new topics that maybe interest them, so reach out. And, yeah, this was this was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Joeri: 31:40

Thanks, Dinidh. Yeah, there will be, of course, like every time, there will be show notes, there will be a blog article. You will find all Dinidh's information and links over there. So yes, Dinidh, it was really a pleasure. Thanks so much.

Dinidh: 31:55

Thank you, Joeri, have a lovely day And hopefully we can do this again soon in the future.

Joeri: 32:00

Yeah. So guys, again an amazing episode with a lot of value. And if you think that this is useful for people around you other marketers or people in the web three space maybe some friends be sure to share this episode with them. And if you are not yet subscribed to our podcast, i think now is a good moment to hit the subscribe button. And, of course, i would like to see you back next time. Take care, bye. Web three can take your base to new heights And you're ready to harness its power, but feeling lost and overwhelmed. Therefore, join my W3X web three mastermind. Send me a personal message for more info. You can find me everywhere on social media. There's only one person with my name, Joeri Bilast. Talk soon.