Are Ordinals the Next Big Thing in Blockchain Technology? – with Francesca Conti from Outlier Ventures | S3 E43

Francesca: 1:10

I think you'd really appreciate them. You'll have to check them out after the podcast is essentially there a platform where you can dump your bad NFTs and use it as a platform to fish for them or find a new one?

Joeri: 1:25

Hello everyone, welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories podcast. My name is Joerri Billast and I'm your podcast host, and today I'm excited to be joined by Francesca Conti. Hi, Francesca, how are you?

Francesca: 1:40

Hi Joeri, I'm doing well on yourself.

Joeri: 1:43

I'm good. It's very cold in Belgium at the moment, actually, but luckily I'm inside recording this podcast here with you. So, guys, if you're now listening and you're wondering who Francesca is, well, Francesca Conti. She brings over 10 years of experience in collaborating with startups, investors and Fjord Fortune 500 companies. She's the current program manager at Bitcoin Basecamp within Outlier Ventures and she has spearheaded the Aptos Move Accelerator, focusing on infrastructure, defi, gaming and AI. Past roles include supporting forfeiture at Outlier Ventures and leading native advertising at Cheddar, now part of Altis, and producing Fox News. Francesca holds an MBA from ESCP Business School and a Bachelor of Science from Rutgers University. That's already impressive, Francesca, but feel free to explain a bit more to our listeners, yeah, what you're actually doing at Outlier Ventures and what is the business that you are in.

Francesca: 2:57

Thank you, Joeri, for the kind intro. Yes, so at Outlier Ventures, I currently serve as the program lead for the Bitcoin Basecamp. Now, for those who are listening, who are well aware of Outlier Ventures stellar reputation within the investment space and perhaps some new followers as well. Outlier Ventures is the most active Web3 investor as of Q3 in 2023. We're also the largest global accelerator in the Web3 space. So in total, we've helped accelerate more than 278 portfolio companies to date, some of which have grown to several billion-dollar companies, such as Bozen Protocol, Fetch AI.

Francesca: 3:37

So we've been on that AI deep for a while, as you can see, by economy as well. So within Outlier Ventures, our role is to help programs excuse me, projects excel and giving them the tools and resources necessary to succeed. So that can be in areas such as tokenomics support, product and tech support, legal guidance, marketing efforts and fundraising, best practices, and essentially, my role is to act as a 360-degree support network for startups, founders that are navigating in the space, that have perhaps some pickups along the road, and they're seeking our advice and help in doing so. So it's a pleasure I get to work with really interesting people on a daily basis.

Joeri: 4:21

Yeah, I guess you have also an interesting background that you come from I already mentioned Fox News, also from traditional investments, and now you are into Web 3. I'm working with Web 3 startups so I'm curious what's part this transition for you.

Francesca: 4:43

Yeah, I guess. As a former business journalist, I've always had an appetite for knowledge building and curious in nature, so with that, I've always been fascinating about emerging technologies and innovation, one of which is crypto. So back in 2013, where some of my colleagues have been following the beat for a long time and were very skeptical of it, I took a different approach and thought, well, this was really interesting technology and we're definitely going to see it on the precipice of something big. I've worked with IBM before on story leads that discuss food chain supply and wellness, so blockchain permeates a lot of different industries. It's not just a digital asset in sense. So very much I see that as the way moving forward in the Web 3 space.

Francesca: 5:28

But really, Yuri, as someone who is a podcast host, I got enamored with the space During COVID. I had listened to the missing crypto queen, which was a podcast on BBC, was brilliantly published and produced, and the story was crazy in nature. But to myself I thought, well, certainly this technology could be used for good. So I became more and more entrenched in learning about the Web 3 space, the on-going the technology involved, and then eventually made the transition to working with startups in these spaces and helping them excel in various verticals.

Joeri: 6:08

Yeah, it's a, you mentioned it. It's a lot of opportunities. It's an interesting space. A lot of things have been moving. You know, since COVID now since COVID here, bitcoin has moved a lot in all kinds of directions. So it's not easy. When I talk to these startups on my podcast, you know they want to get the funds. It's not always easy to get those investments. Or to you know, Web3 is a bit, like you know, on the downside for some people. I see a lot of potential. So my question to you is how do you? There are some challenges. Of course. There are also opportunities. How are you looking at the current markets?

Francesca: 6:52

Yeah, I look at it from a very positive outlook For someone who's working with these emerging technologies on a day to day basis. I see real use cases evolving, especially with that in the Bitcoin ecosystem, so very much what's a place to just fold your assets and stay idle? In many senses, we're seeing it transform and this is a bit due to scalability, composability, but certainly with the introductions of ordinances and stats, we're seeing more people really lean into the space where I think traditionally Bitcoin. For those who are not fully immersed in the Web3 world can view it as perhaps intimidating, scary a barrier of entry. And that comes with, you know, a lot of jargon being used and some complexity of terms, but certainly I see more and more opportunity and potential lie within that, because I think you're also.

Francesca: 7:47

People are very much wanting to look to the next big thing, and we've already tapped into that at Outlier Ventures, especially since we work with so many different profile types and founders and individuals in these different spaces and know what's to come. I think a really important factor in doing so is making it highly digestible. So you know we talk about the importance of storytelling, how to position yourself in the market, how to relate, messaging and why people should care, and then I think these are all very transferable skills, right, but it's easy to get caught up in the folds with that. So it's highly important that Outlier Ventures, while we're assisting with providing the necessary resources for these teams to move further in their journey, also making sure that their messaging resonates. So storytelling, marketing these are all essential tools in helping them thrive.

Joeri: 8:45

Yeah, obviously I agree, storytelling content. That's what we are creating now. Content actually for mixed audiences, because you have those people already you know on board in Web3 and that you want to reach and there are different channels, of course, but then you have the majority of people is still if you come on in Web2 or and they are looking at or not really sure about this, and they also look at Web2. Well, it's so complex, you need a wallet and some. Yeah, maybe do you have any tips or strategies that we could use to on board more new users as a space in the Web3 space and then particularly for startups.

Francesca: 9:31

Yeah, I think very much in terms of how we onboard the next billion users is what it goes back to in terms of staying informed, getting involved, giving the necessary breathing room to do so, and I think it's also a matter of just self-education, right, and that comes in all different forms.

Francesca: 9:52

Something that I'm very passionate about with Outlier Ventures and in general in the investment space is allowing for inclusivity and for unique voices to emerge in that space.

Francesca: 10:04

So at Outlier Ventures, we have a strong partnership with She-Fi allowing Web3 education and tooling to be made available to individuals that are non-binary, female, etc. Allowing for people to be more included in the process. And I think that this is a really interesting space, yuri, because Web3, in many respects, is still quite nascent, right. It's still a way of which we're learning and evolving, so I think that very much welcomes further inclusion that might not be seen in some traditional verticals or some traditional Web2 spaces. So for me, it's very interesting to see how this evolves and how more people are getting in tune with that. I think a great example of this is I recently had worked with a team called SwapGPT and the female lead on the project had worked in the AI department at Microsoft. She was passionate about starting an AI application within the DeFi vertical and working together, finding a voice in which she was able to successfully translate her messaging, and giving her the tools and resources necessary on the back end and the technical component to do so.

Joeri: 11:18

You mentioned it the inclusivity and also AI, two of the topics that I also talked about already a lot on the podcast. It's really interesting the opportunities that you see with Web3 and, of course, inclusivity, but also this aspect of AI that these people now all. When we were talking one year ago, we talked a lot about Metaverse and one year before that about NFTs. Now it's all around AI. Any thoughts on these trends or maybe the other trends that you mentioned that are impacting the industry or the market for startups?

Francesca: 12:01

Yeah, I mean on Outleir Ventures. We've always had our pulse on what's next and I think very much we see that with the FETAI investment. So that was an opportunity for us to grow and launch a project in which has gained great positive reputation in the space, but very much, in my opinion, ICAI evolving as really just a background facilitator to help users and consumers engage. So, for example, I had worked with a company called Societ AI.

Francesca: 12:33

The CEO, Yasmin Topia, created a generative AI technology which helps shoppers shop better. So, essentially using technology, the technology's name is Maya. It's a personal shopper that acts as a chatbot, but instead of just suggesting things for you to buy, it actually engages with you and learns from your behavior. So to me, this is incredibly interesting because, as a fashion collector enthusiast, Webtoon technology people are familiar with, like to know it and some other the real real and you know other sites that would suggest things for you. This takes it one step deeper. So how can we be harnessing AI technology to really understand our consumers and engage with them for higher return on investments? So to me, this was a really interesting project to help you admin with and grow the brand, and it's received a lot of positive recognition.

Joeri: 13:34

Yeah, and I also love, you know, these new technologies like AI, like crypto, like the metaverse, like it all comes together. Finally, you know, at a certain moment, so, the AI aspect I also, you know, on my podcast. In the beginning I was really strict on who you know it's only Web3 and for me then AI was not a part of it. But now I define Web3 more like an umbrella term, including not only blockchain and FTs but also AI, metaverse and so on. And because when you talk, I talk to people about Web3, they think about crypto, they think about Bitcoin.

Joeri: 14:10

You mentioned, yeah, ordinals, of course, but you know there is an impact of people looking at Web3 and scams and Bitcoin. Now, the Bitcoin, you see, I'm also looking at what is happening and the story around about the ETF and so on. So I'm also curious to know to see from you, you know, because obviously there is Bitcoin as it is now the current position, but of course we can look at the future Do you anticipate any shifts in, maybe what happened with Bitcoin and the impact that it would have?

Francesca: 14:46

Yeah, so not financial advice.

Francesca: 14:48

I think, but I do think that we're in a very unique position because Bitcoin very much has a positive narrative at the moment and has for quite some time. So you know, in terms of Web3, when we talk about overcoming hurdles, we've discussed jargon, things of that nature, but it's also overcoming stigma attached to that. So we saw the fall in collapse of FTX, we saw, you know, the demise of Sam Beckman-Fried, so a few individuals that were really key and for onlookers who are not as deeply entrenched in Web3, you know it really did warrant some wariness in the space. But very much I'm seeing that this is pointing in a positive direction, that essentially we've wiped clean some of the old and getting way to really building new technology that is going to sustain time.

Francesca: 15:40

So Bitcoin itself as you had mentioned, we're all highly anticipating the Bitcoin spot ETF and what that looks like, but very much I mean Outlier Ventures announced this program even before Bitcoin had a huge surge. So it's something we've looked at for quite some time and we've seen really strength in terms of the applications that we've reviewed thus far. Actually, they're still open for those who are interested, but it's essentially allowing individuals an opportunity to further diversify and giving them an alternative opportunity for investment strategies. So that's something that very much in my opinion, will remain, and it's evident in what we're seeing in terms of the major financial institutions. So, again, it's almost as if we saw it in the back group mirror and we're looking forward into a higher future.

Joeri: 16:37

Interesting and I like the fact how enthusiastic that you are. You know meeting people that see this opportunity, see these applications that are happening, see the possibilities. That is also really it helps, you know, keeping the energy and continue what you are doing. I mean, as you know, a podcast is called Web3 CMO Story. So I'm into marketing and it's interesting to see all these startups that are building. You work a lot, as we said, with startups. So how important is marketing in the Web3 sector and maybe what unique approaches are required comparing to the traditional marketing?

Francesca: 17:22

Yeah, in terms of Web3 marketing, it's pivotal because very much your positioning yourself in a way that you want to make yourself discoverable, as I say. So, in terms of making yourself Relevant and known in the space, there's a lot of white noise at the moment. A lot of people are working on similar projects. So how do you differentiate yourself? Yeah, I, you know two big examples of corporations that I think have done this really well is L'Oreal with their Nix Web3 push. So they have their own Dow, called gorgeous, so they're onboarding creatives and users to fully participate in that experience and work with a younger generation that has an appetite for Web3. We've also seen loyalty come into play with visa and how they're coming up with a reward system for gamified approaches, collectibles, giveaways, ticketing. So this is not something that's very much on the precipice with big Organizations and they're looking to smaller companies, the success stories that they've had and trying to replicate it on a much larger scale.

Francesca: 18:31

One of our portfolio companies, junkyard You're. I think you'd Really appreciate them. You'll have to check them out after the podcast is essentially there a platform where you can dump your bad NFTs and use it as a platform to fish for them or find a new one. So I very much plays into the NFT hype, but doing in a way that's highly gamified and very authentic in nature. And I think that's very much where Web three comes into play as well, because you hear it again and again community, community, community, being authentic, engaging with your audience. But it's not just a saying. Very much, time and time and again, we see that the companies that do best are those that really stick to their core and are authentic and once they build in whom they speak with.

Joeri: 19:21

Yeah, and and the storytelling, of course, and all around that, to to make sure that your audience, your, your customers, that there is really value. You mentioned a few interesting cases with loyalty and so on, and sometimes, just by not mentioning that, this Web3 you know, just talking about a membership card or an access to a concert or to an event and so on can also, and Of course, the world is evolving very fast. Like I mentioned that, you have NFT hype, then get Metaverse, now AI. You know what is coming next the next 12 months or maybe later, do you see? And you can, you know it's beginning of the year, so any predictions or feelings that you see, yeah, what will happen the next year?

Francesca: 20:12

Yeah, I mean very much from a Bitcoin perspective. We're seeing Appetite for DeFi applications because that was one something that wasn't necessarily being Activated because a lack of innovation or technology. So very much something that is currently being Worked on and we're seeing that in terms of the quality of founders we've been reaching. So whether that's using social media applications to send digital assets and forms, whether that looks like Loyalty incentivization we're seeing that all being applied on In the Bitcoin ecosystem. And again with ordinals and sets, I think that's an interesting one and we'll see how that plays out.

Francesca: 20:55

But very much Outlier venture's remains bullish on DeFi, we have a program with wormhole, which was very successful in recent fundraising that sound valued at over two billion dollars. So we'll see that and look applications that come from that. Also, something with met Futureverse we have a program with them as well. So building on that alternative world space and metaverse and that appetite there. So those are interesting ones to look for. Again, I have an interest in beauty and fashion from a personal note, so I'm definitely looking for some of those bigger brands like L'Oreal, to see what they come up with and the collaborations there and be an active consumer in that respect.

Joeri: 21:41

Yeah, definitely. I was just was going to ask whether you're excited about, but now you actually answered already a bit. Also, you mentioned a few times ordinals. Not so many people, I have the feeling, talk about that, so it's so. This is really something that that you see coming in the the next year. I would say.

Francesca: 22:02

Yeah, we see that this is very much something that, in terms of the applicants We've spoken with and the projects that are out there still emerging in terms of maturity, but it's something that very much is an attractive component to us. So, within that asset issue in spucket, brc 20, defi, as previously noted, very much infrastructure. Infrastructure is Permits all industries, but is really important in the respect that we believe it's what gets projects going and gets the tech stack to where it is, though I certainly see that continuing to be a driving force.

Joeri: 22:43

So interesting. Already people are listening to these and they say, okay, check these out, ordinals, because Not so many people talk about it already.

Joeri: 22:53

Yeah, they should, and you're advocating yeah we try to do that, and I also learning while doing this podcast interviews. Also, francesca, that's one of the things I do, that I I learn for people, I network with people. I also help people because I try to educate them too, and that's maybe a good Question to end this podcast with. So if there was one lesson that you have learned or maybe an advice that you would like to give to our listeners, that are, you know, entering Web3 space, what would you say?

Joeri: 25:32

I'd say stay hungry and stay curious. And I mean that because Web3 is an area which it's evolving on a rapid pace. And is so multifaceted in terms of what we discuss Joereri as you noted. Is it AI? Is it DeFi? Is it infrastructure? Is it digital assets. Well, it's everything. So, in terms of how we can continue to upskill and upskill, in terms of our respect, being cognizant that new players are going to merge in the space, beeing mindful and reading up on cerain key aspects new emerging technologies continuing to meet people and also stay weird. As the space continues to grow. You're going to be meeting a lot of individuals Joeri, I'm sure you have really unique and divese backgrounds and I think that's also what makes tha space so special and very much with an Outlier Ventures. We're a team of all walks of life who my colleague had been a Chinese fine arts specialist at Chritie's. Another one had worked in traditional finance, investment banking. So it's really a widespread breadth of different peersonalities and diversities but all with underlying panning of helping founders succeed and furthering the mission of Web3. I love that because that's what I also like to do. I don't know if you noticed it, but in the 150 episodes there are people from all kinds. You know all walks of life. You know they were like startups from different, you know sectors like education, fashion, like beauty events, all of that loyalty and then all thses different applications And also you know writers, author, speakers, influences from the space, like also people from finance, expecting. So, I try to be as divers as possible, That's with Christmas. There was even about, you now, mindfulness in the Metaverse. Maybe you saw that episode. That's also because it's it's surprising, and I like to do that because it gives a broad, Th at's know overview. And then I say to people that about my podcast, or say you know what it's like? You go to the restaurant, you check the menu and it's you're like this, this, this. And so if people come to me and they have a certain question and I hear what they're interested in, I say okay, you should check out this episode, this episode and the last one which, Francesca, you should check out. And that's how I do this. And then you know, yeah, it's people like that's this connection.

Francesca: 26:03

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think that very much. It affords us the opportunity to meet, meeting with a very diverse set of individuals and I. Another prediction I make is more of my friends or colleagues who are not in the web three space dive into this rabbit hole, because more and more I meet people that are so fascinated with the world of what three and what that entails and once they overcome the battle of Understanding the jargon and the complexity around that and breaking down those barriers, I think it becomes so much more interesting for them and they become very much active Participants rather than passable ones.

Joeri: 26:42

I yeah, amazing. That's also what I'm trying to do. You're being a guide, helping people showing. I'm also thinking of writing my next book, which will be about the metaverse. That's actually a oh. I've been posting about all on LinkedIn. I'm doing a poll, I'll put you the title. It probably will be about metaverse marketing and events. But guys, stay tuned if you are not listening, and so, Francesca, what I always ask is people that are not listening and they would like to connect with you. They want to find out more about online adventures. Where would you like to send them?

Francesca: 27:18

Absolutely so. For anyone who is a founder or just interested in these subjects that have listened to the podcast, feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. It should be linkedin. com/ Francesca J CONTI. Conversely, you can find me on Telegram at J Conti, so you can connect in that way. Just send me a note and preface that it was based on this podcast and understanding. For those who are interested in learning more about outlier ventures, feel free to check our website, which is www. outlierventures. io. I know we had the pleasure of hearing and speaking about Bitcoin rather in depth, but certainly we have expertise across the board in other areas and verticals as well, so I'd encourage all founders to check that out and, knowing that the Bitcoin basecamp is still accepting applications few spots left make sure to check that out as well and if you have any questions, let me know.

Joeri: 28:14

Great, like always, francesca. There will be show notes. There will be an article about the podcast, so if people are now listening in their car and they've missed the website or missed some, check out the show notes. There is also a link in the podcast description on your app. And then, of course, as always, if you think this episode is really interesting for people around you, be sure to share the episode with them. If you're not yet subscribed, as I always say, this is a really good moment to do this and, of course, I would like to see you back next time. Bye, everyone.

Francesca: 28:50

Thank you Bye.