The Evolution of Digital Currencies Through the Lens of Sonia Shaw | S4 E09

Sonia: 0:00

The meme coin can gain more popularity than any hardcore technology-backed project, because meme is easy to understand for a lot of people.

Joeri: 0:09

Hello everyone and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories podcast. My name is Joeri Billast and I'm your podcast host, and today we are joined by Sonia Shaw. Hello Sonia, how are you?

Sonia: 0:23

Hi Joeri, I'm good. How are you?

Joeri: 0:26

I'm good too. People don't see it, but I see that it seems very hot in Dubai. In Belgium it's nice weather, but not so hot, so I'm good. I'm good If you hear some birds on the background. Yeah, this is part of the game.

Sonia: 0:39

That's a good news.

Joeri: 0:48

So, guys, if you don't know Sonia, she's the president of Coin W cryptocurrency exchange. It's a leader at the intersection of traditional and decentralized finance. Under Sonia's leadership, Coin W has scaled to new heights, posting a global user base of over 10 million and significant market presence world. So, Sonia, feel free to explain a bit more about your background and also give us a bit of an overview of Coin W and its mission.

Sonia: 1:15

Thank you. Thank you, Joeri. Thanks for the kind words. I can't take all the credits.

Sonia: 1:18

In the last two years, we definitely have gained quite a lot of attention globally from our users and partners, partners across different countries, thanks to the global team. We have an amazing team. So globally now we have about 800 people. The company has been around for the last seven years, so we established in 2017. So we have been around in the last few bull and bear markets and, in terms of focus of market, we predominantly focus mostly in Asia-Pacific regions. It's only in the last two years our strategy started expanding across different regions and different continents. So that's when we see quite a bit of more attention and more market coverage coming, especially this year.

Sonia: 2:04

The market condition getting better. We're definitely having a bit of a tailwind compared to 2022. Strong headwinds because of the market yeah, globally we've onboarded more than 10 million users and in terms of volume-wise, we're definitely seeing volume pick up very dramatically in the last six months Spot market more than half a billion 24 hours, and then futures they're like, I think, more than 15 billion 24 hours trading volume and most of them still coming from the issue side. We definitely see a lot of emerging markets picking up yeah, overall, we're quite positive. Market condition company yeah, I think I'm in a very good place thanks to the market and the team.

Joeri: 2:49

Yes, we met, obviously, at Paris Blockchain Week. I already felt that there was again positive atmosphere, lots of projects, new things happening. Also, I got more requests for marketing support than last year. It was really calm that time. Yeah and yeah. And then for you for the current year, it seems there is a lot of optimism. What are now your goals for CoinW in the current year, current markets and maybe how do you plan to achieve them?

Sonia: 3:21

Yeah, in the crypto market, the cycle is quite short. From the previous experience, every cycle is something ranging before 12 to 16, 18 months. So we've learned a lot from the previous cycles and up and downs and then we planned and then build, accumulate a lot of skills and then the team ready for either market condition. So now I think from the fundamental, we're still at the early stage of this bull run. Our fundamental market liquidity is not back yet, the interest rate is still high and money supply is still tight.

Sonia: 3:56

But from the industry, catalyst wise, we're getting recognition from institutional investors thanks to ETF approval and, because of that, a lot of traditional money flooding into the cryptocurrency industry. And then, as the first gateway for people coming into the industry, centralized exchange playing a very important role in this whole transition. Because I always tell people even we are in Web3 business, we are a cryptocurrency platform, but we are more like a Web2 business in Web3 because we provide Web2 experience, make it easy and simple for people ordinary day-to-day people to come into the cryptocurrency world. And then because of that mission, so I think bull market is definitely a good wave. The high tide will leave all boats right. So we'll definitely onboard a lot more users, new users coming to the industry. That's the positive side.

Sonia: 5:01

We still need to be working hard to make our industry as the mainstream. Even now we have the institutional support and recognition, but in terms of the actual users, we're still not even half a billion user base globally. Market cap is still rather small 2.4, 2.4 23 trillion that's still considering a whole industry globally. That's not really big enough yet. So we're still at early stage of the industry and early stage of this bull run. And then, as the most important part of onboarding new users, central life exchange play a very important role and we definitely have a lot of mission in here to accomplish Not only make sure everything is safer for our users and also make it easy and simple for people to navigate when they're first entering the cryptocurrency world. I think that's personally and also from the global team. Strategy-wise, we really feel we have a big mission to make sure that we look after our users, our communities, and bring new users on board and play the key part of making this industry mainstream.

Joeri: 6:17

Of course, Thank you for sharing that, Sonia. So I see this is really a way to stand out. I have the feeling like to retain the Web 3 flavor. On top of that, you mentioned all these challenges. We want to have more people on board, then, of course, use a family less, and so on is really important. What about partnerships? I know you have a proven tech recording in with partnerships. Can you share a bit how these work for you?

Sonia: 6:48

Yeah, absolutely, as the leader of the company, building and fostering quality partnerships in the industry across different industries, horizontally, vertically, is also quite an important mission for me to achieve when, during the bear market, the whole sentiment was a bit negative and then, during that time, our focus more like how actually strength industry confidence. So my focus was partnering with regulators and government bodies, make sure that we also our mission aligned with what they want to achieve. Particularly, now we're headquartered in Dubai, we're getting our final viral license in here and we've built a very strong partnership with the local one of the biggest block organization called Dubai Blockchain Center, and they actually played a very key part of the whole Dubai blockchain ecosystem, brought in a lot of business here, talents here, projects here, and then so working with them actually built a bridge for us to connect with a lot of different side of the ecosystem, including projects, including VC funds, including communities and also developers as well, and that's quite a in the last few months and we have been working together on hosting educational events and then also discussions with different parties from different ecosystems and then moving forward. We have quite a lot of plans building with them, including even working with local universities, building bootcamps, helping uni graduates achieve either career goals in Web3 industry. So that one I think it's quite important.

Sonia: 8:32

And then from the business perspective, the front like how do we get the CoinW brand out there and make sure that people feel that we're not a new business and we do have what it takes to be in the market long enough in the last seven years.

Sonia: 8:47

So from that perspective, we work collaboratively and closely with a lot of strong, key industry influencers, opinion influencers, including crypto banter group. I built the connection with them last year in consensus Austin and be working with them for the last 12 months and then everything's just such a great ride with them and then they introduced us to their huge community. And also, of course, in Dubai. There are quite a lot of key, key key opinion leadership groups, such as, like Da Vinci group, the Mooncow group and a lot of them. So slowly they all start recognizing the QNW value in our mission and in our ambition and goal. So in that sense, I think we also, because of their help and their support and their trust, we gain a lot more recognition from users globally. So from these two perspectives, I think last six to eight months, and then we've done quite a bit of milestone achievement.

Joeri: 9:49

And also you are at these different events. I met you at Paris Blockchain Week. You mentioned ConsenSys. By the way, coindesk is the main sponsor of this podcast, so, oh, yeah, I will be there. I will be there at ConsenSys too. Right, I'll see you there. Yeah, see you back. Yeah, those real-life connections. It's always Absolutely Good to see people.

Sonia: 10:11

Good to see peoples faces in the business as well. Yeah, it's not just everything online like during the COVID time, but face-to-face meetings so important.

Joeri: 10:18

Yeah, it is, and obviously because the world is now so small, because we do everything online and then if you meet people in real life, that's really another value. It brings also good energy, I feel, because I know.

Sonia: 10:32

Yeah, because of that, I actually really believe face-to-face interaction and because of that, the company branding team put me in quite a lot of different events, because I want to be there and to meet people. And also we're building a lot of quality side events along with all these different major global crypto events, and we're also building our exhibition track going to different locations to face communities and people face to face. So this is also one of the things I'm focusing on. That's why I'm flying most of the time.

Joeri: 11:05

So what is next step for you? Is it ConsenSys, or is it another event?

Sonia: 11:09

Yes, ConsenSys, definitely. I'm going to go to Amsterdam for Money 2020 as well, and after that there's another event in Paris. I'm going Then, after that I'm going to be in Asia Japan and Korea, and then Bali. There is a coin fest as well, and then another token in Singapore. So, yeah, a lot of locations to go.

Joeri: 11:31

And a lot of different time zones too.

Sonia: 11:33

I know, but that's a challenge for me personally.

Joeri: 11:36

To kill the energy. Do you have a tip for that? Because if you change a lot of time zones to just keep in shape, do you always adapt correctly?

Sonia: 11:45

My team is probably not a good team. Coffee yeah, I drink a lot of coffee, but I exercise. No matter where I go, I make sure there's a gym there.

Joeri: 11:59

Yeah, that's the thing, and I also try to eat healthy. It's not always possible. When you go at a place that you don't know um, yeah, a challenge in the Web3 sphere then the atmosphere is like the regulations that are coming there. So I was wondering it can become quite complex, given this complex landscape. How are you, with CoinW, navigating these different international regulations?

Sonia: 12:29

Yeah, regulation compliance is always the top of my priority list, looking at what happened in the last few years, and we don't really want to be in the position when things come back. It's very complex. Let's just take the example of Europe. There are so many, every country has their own regulations and the maker also wants to step in, try to unify the rules and the frameworks. And also in the UAE you'll find there is a VARA, there is a EDGM and then there's different free zones and then also the financial regulation parties that regulates traditional financial service industry as well. So it's definitely quite a lot of things happening, but I see that as a positive point. So it's definitely quite a lot of things happening, but I see that as a positive point. Every industry, from the early stage to the mainstream, at a point the regulation needs to jump in. When the regulation jumps in, that means we are heading into mainstream. So I definitely see that as a positive point.

Sonia: 13:22

And just for companies like us, especially innovation-focused and then we're in a very fast-paced industry and working with regulations, that does come a lot of challenge, not just from how we follow the regulations, but a lot of regions and countries the regulators also not aware of or don't really understand too much about the technology. So rather than working progressively, they can be quite conservative. So for us, we see who are more progressive and then we'll more front with them and then try to work alongside and then support from our side. For example, in the UAE, I feel Dubai government regulators are very progressive and in Asia, hong Kong start picking up as well, in Singapore, progressive and in asia, hong kong start picking up as well. In singapore, traditionally it was very welcoming, and even for japan and korea they also trying to loosen up a bit. So we need to be really, I think, for companies like us, we need to really understand every region, what they're trying to achieve and understand how to really be alongside of how to achieve their goal.

Sonia: 14:29

The regulation at this stage, most of them, like from our side, is focusing on the consumer protection and asset protection and the security side. But different governments, different countries, different regions have different priorities because sometimes they also don't want to give priority to us. Then that double-tied the traditional industry or other industry, and so there are quite a lot of things playing in there from our side how we actually work with the ones that already up at the front, it's more important, for example, dubai. That's why we had cordon here and also we try to connect with some regions and countries welcoming suggestions, and then we look into how we can bring the Dubai experience, even with the regulators, to the countries and regions that they want to learn from and then connect them. So that's also something as Business Front we can do as well. Yeah, so positive side is good Regulators looking at us and then it's good and then, but definitely challenging- yeah, I imagine.

Joeri: 15:35

And then I'm in Europe with all these different countries, different regulations, different. Actually, I'll be moving from Belgium to Portugal. As I've understood, Portugal is also crypto friendly.

Sonia: 15:46

Yes, portugal, yeah, Lisbon is a big hub there.

Joeri: 15:49

Yeah, it's a bit like Dubai, so that's also one of the reasons I'm going there, also, of course, with the nice weather and the communities that are there Exactly. So, yeah, you mentioned, a lot of things are going on. Regulation is one thing. What are now maybe other trends in blockchain, in crypto, that you've seen, maybe by going to these events or by trends that you see in the markets? I'm curious to hear that.

Sonia: 16:19

Yeah, I feel, compared to the previous cycles, you can definitely see in this cycle the projects focusing more on the actual use case. And then because the technology is starting to get more mature, especially from the DeFi space, like a lot of protocols, a lot of DeFi projects are quite mature and generating positive cash flows already. And in that part, I feel the infrastructure side the layer one, layer two blockchains will still remain. The key focus of the industry is with the infrastructure development that will allow the traditional business navigate through or migrate to the blockchain space. And then also with the new narrative, new trend coming, especially with the AI last year. It's definitely a hot topic, but it's also something that is going to revolutionize the whole humanity. That part we'll see.

Sonia: 17:20

There are a lot of VC funds, a lot of talents, a lot of companies, developers focus on AI-combined blockchain technology and even just in the AI space itself, there are a lot of different parts, from just simple concept to infrastructure-wise, the hardware-wise and then computing power-wise. So there are a lot of different streams that are developing, quite definitely getting a lot of attention from investors and VC funds, and then so just AI and blockchain itself, I feel is a huge industry Just within the blockchain industry. Just ai, if you can break it out. I feel this based on blockchain technology, ai technology is a huge industry itself and then that's definitely a big narrative going on and other things like because now we're gaining the mainstream attention, especially with institutional money coming in, then you will see how the traditional financial service industry coming into the crypto industry and then that will go through.

Sonia: 18:26

Of course, etf is one thing, that's one fund inflow, but how are we going to share the liquidity and then inflow and outflow? So that's another big thing that we're talking about. Rwe concept is also going to be. Eventually, I believe, all the financial service and products should be on chain one for efficiency, one for transparency. If we're looking that sort of vision or ambition, we're talking about hundreds of trillions of liquidity potentially on chain and of course, that requires a lot of technology development and revolution as well. So all these things that they are real use case, that really changing every day's human's life, and I believe this is going to go long term and mainstream in the whole crypto industry.

Joeri: 19:11

Yes, those three life use cases. That's really important when you have a look at projects. I was actually myself a guest yesterday on the podcast around coin and so on and I got a question yeah, people that are not yet in the space and they are looking at all. There are so many coins and there's so many stories and what would you advise to those people?

Sonia: 19:33

yeah, I think that's all one of the challenges for inside, like we're inside a bubble, people outside a bubble, like some, like they see differently and we see differently. So the tech, technical hurdle is definitely one of the biggest challenge for the industry to go just the mainstream like that. That's why, you see, the meme coin can gain more popularity than any hardcore technology-backed projects, because meme is easy to understand for a lot of people right, and then for a lot of webtoon people it's easy to get on board and easy to understand. For a lot of people right, and then for a lot of Web2 people it's easy to get on board and easy to understand. But definitely, if you're looking at actual investment, they're actually quite hard to navigate. There's too many tokens and too many coins. I definitely I don't want to give any financial advice and then I've gone through my journey of learning and then invest because I have traditional financial background and I invest, of course, properties and then equities and then also tradings and all different asset class and they you still need to see this as a high risk investment category, which means you shouldn't go all in, and then you should really always have a portfolio management and then you should always have a portfolio management. And then I always tell my friends, if you're not in the industry, you shouldn't do all-in, you should do 20-80, like 80 in the traditional secured asset class. But for people like us, we're in the industry, we're always all-in. For example, when the market is correcting and dumping, we always say, hey, we need time to buy, but the problem for us is like all our assets are already in tokens and crypto. So I think that because the understanding of the knowledge and then the industry, there is a huge gap. And then I don't really recommend people to go too risky. If you really understand too much and to be on the secure, safe side.

Sonia: 21:28

Focus on the infrastructure tokens, which means that they have the actual technology, and then they also have the ecosystem on them. Layer two technologies a is an architecture arbitrum, and then those technology layer ones like Solana Hockadog, and then these all layer ones and then you study them okay, why this one? Like how much TVL this one has, how many projects on these and what sort of ecosystem this blockchain supporting? And at least they're actually having a technology that going long term and they are the fundamental of the whole blockchain industry. And then another one is easy to understand is probably DeFi, because DeFi is a traditional financial service going blockchain and then, no matter you do liquidity staking or liquidity providing, they are very easy to understand, right? So it's not. And then you understand okay which sort of tokens actually providing a DeFi investment either the infrastructure or the technology or the liquidity pool. So try to understand that. It's easier to understand now.

Sonia: 22:39

Then if you really want high risk, a lot of AI coins. They're high risk because they're still on concept point, but they have huge potential and they're not many of them because they only started last year. So you probably look at the tier one ai coin. They're like probably 10 of them and easy to really select a bag of the 10. So I would say this is on the safe side, but the risky side. I don't want to talk too much.

Joeri: 23:10

There is always a risk in investments, of course, and I always say, yeah, try to. You need to diversify. If it's Web3 or just traditional finance, diversify and understand also what you're putting your money in. Do some like you, you said do the research and then, based on that, follow up, and then it helps, of course, if you're already in the space. But for people now listening to this podcast, maybe they are already doing stuff with Web3, maybe they have an NFT, but they have not yet invested or are just careful. You gave them a lot of good tips. So, Sonia, what are you, at this moment, the most excited about? This is always something I like to ask.

Sonia: 23:52

I'm definitely excited about the whole market. I just saw in this URA and it feels very different because we're definitely getting a lot of more attention from mainstream. I think when Bitcoin hits 100K, it's going to be the moment of everyone just really starting, even the people from this traditional space and looking at us, I'm pretty sure it's going to be there pretty soon in this bull run and, of course, with CoinW globally, our market share is still not huge yet, and then I'm on this boat to take the team globally and then to be there gain more recognition. It's definitely very exciting and it's very privileged for me to be on this journey with the team as well.

Joeri: 24:39

That's a very positive message to end this podcast episode with Sonja. That's a very positive message to end this podcast episode with Sonia. If people now they want to learn more about you, about CoinW and whatever that you are doing, where would you like me to send them?

Sonia: 24:53

Follow my Twitter and follow CoinW official Twitter. Yeah, so I'm not a very prompt Twitter, but I do share whatever on my mind on Twitter as well.

Joeri: 25:04

Yeah, perfect. Like people know, there are always show notes. There is always an article linked to this podcast episode, so be sure to check the show notes to have Sonia's Twitter. Sonia, yeah, it was really a pleasure to have you on the show.

Sonia: 25:21

Joeri, my pleasure. Thank you so much.

Joeri: 25:23

Guys, again, an amazing podcast episode. Like I always say, if you think this episode is useful for people around you your friends, family, investors, entrepreneurs, people looking to learn more about Reptree be sure to share this episode with them. If you're not yet following Reptree's CMO Stories podcast, this is a really good sure to share this episode with them. If you're not yet following Raptree's CMO Stories podcast, this is a really good moment to do this. And, before I forget, if you haven't yet, give me a review on the podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify. Be sure to do this, because it helps me even reach a bigger audience. And, of course, I would like to see you back next time. Take care.

Sonia: 26:09

Thank you Bye.