Diego: 0:00

They told you it's going to save the world. They told you it's going to change everything. They told you the world is never going to be the same. It's happening with AI right now, as well.

Joeri: 0:08

Hello everyone and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories podcast. My name is Joeri Bilast and I'm your podcast host, and today I'm stoked to be joined by Diego Borgo. Hi, Diego, what's up? What's good man? How good. What's good man, good? Yeah, good to see you again After you met at the WebS ummit in Lisbon. By the way, as you know, I moved to Lisbon area too, and I've had a look. It's two years ago that you were on the show, so time goes really fast.

Diego: 0:40

I think things have changed a little bit.

Joeri: 0:42

Yeah, it has changed a little bit. Yeah, it has changed a little bit, so it was time to invite you again. And for people that maybe don't know, you guys, Diego Borgo is a brand executive advisor guiding Fortune 500 leaders and Web3 founders to success in the ever-evolving internet. Indeed, it is evolving all the time. Evolving internet. Indeed, it is evolving all the time. And yeah, Diego, let's just dive in because I want to talk to you about, you know, the biggest misconception about Web3 that people still believe and, yeah, why you think it still exists. Yeah, totally.

Diego: 1:21

Thanks again, thanks for having me. You know I joke that things have, might have changed, changed. When you're at the edge of what's next, you know it's like every week is crazy, right, like 2025 for blockchain, crypto and AI has already feel like has been decades of like, changes and evolution. Right of like, changes and evolution. Right. So it's quite exciting to be working within that industry but at the same time, there's a lot of things to catch up every day, right, and when you start looking to what are the misconceptions or where sort of like we stand on Web3, by December last year, I took quite a strong stance on what 2025 is going to be all about, on my content, on my work and what I do, and I'm calling for a rebrand of Web3,. Right, I did a keynote in Lisbon last year, by the end of last year, talking exactly about that.

Diego: 2:16

Right, and I think it's a lot into what you're just asking, because if you look at the current mainstream perception of Web3 and crypto and sometimes even blockchain technology, as you've seen, kind of like as one, the generic or the general assumption or the general understanding, it's most of the time related with scams, poncies, no use cases, right? People think about FTX. People think about the Luna collapse. People think about oh yeah, my cousin told me about that coin I bought and I lost all my money, right. So the few people that take the leap from what they think it is and get their hands dirty, most of the time get burned.

Diego: 3:03

We literally just seen that with before Trump's inauguration, with, you know, the now president of the United States releasing a meme coin, right, A lot of people got excited about it, a lot of people that have never been in this industry before got their hands into it and a lot of people got bored, right. So it's just a repetition over and over of what has happened before and what keeps continuing happening within this industry. So that's kind of like why I keep going back to this concept of Web3 needs a rebrand, because this perception that the mainstream has is not going to change unless we start changing from the inside out and unless we start working together to shape it. And you know, as a as a as a brand guy, a brand strategy is someone that come from that background. Branding is is where it starts as well, right, because that can shift culture, because that that can shift product, because that can shift perspective from from the mainstream yeah, definitely.

Joeri: 4:03

Yes, a lot of things are happening. You mentioned Trump, since he came on also with his meme coin. It's crazy. But you mentioned that. The rebrand, of course, Web3, when I talk to people, they don't fully understand what it is or they're thinking about these scams. So if you were to rebrand Web3, I would say from scratch what would be the core narrative that you would build around it.

Diego: 4:27

Yeah, I think that, apart from what I just said, which is not necessarily, you know, something quick to fix, because the industry was built, you know, by a lot of those principles of decentralization, permissionless, meaning anybody can come in and do whatever they want, nobody needs to ask for permission. Can launch a coin, right. So once you open the gate, that everybody can do it, not just people with good intentions will do it. The thing is that you know which a wide open gate, a lot of that becomes a little bit gray and you see a lot of people going for the wrong reasons doesn't mean that everybody in the industry is a scammer. It doesn't mean that every coin is a scam. It doesn't mean that every founder is a scammer, right. But what happens on the mainstream is that those things obviously echo louder because that's what grabs attention, right. So I think that this isn't necessarily something easy to change, because the technology enables it to happen and you know, and people do it. But I think that when we start looking from a from a, from a sort of like a rebranding perspective, one of one of the things that is entirely under our control, you know, as founders, as CMOs, as CTOs, as CEOs, is how we communicate the technology, how we communicate the product, how we communicate the benefits, which we are fucking in love with this technology. Let's get that clear, because we love talking about the technology stack here, stack there names hyper-secure, zero-knowledge cryptographic algorithm what the fuck does that even mean? So we just love it.

Diego: 6:03

It's an obsession at this stage, and I always keep saying that this industry was built by technologists for technologists, and people just talk that way and we expect that every other human understands what we're talking about, and they don't. They don't, right? So I think that this is one big element that nobody gives a fuck about the technology, right? So how do we start shifting the dial? As now, almost four years fully dedicated to this industry, 25 hours a day, as I've been, I understand that every single founder I have spoken with has the desire of getting the mainstreams, getting their product in the hands of the mainstream, right? Because that means we get more users, we get more people, we can ramp up revenue. So, with that assumption in mind, the tech talk's not going to do it. That's one of the first pillars, right? So how we start looking into that?

Diego: 7:00

The second thing is that we're so proud about this concept and I'm included in what I'm just going to say that we keep presenting Web3 as the Wild West. It's the Wild West. It's the Wild West. How many times have you heard that and how many times you know? Whoever in the audience that is more into the industry has heard that before as well. It's the Wild West and we are proud of it. My newsletter is called the Wild West of Web3.

Diego: 7:26

I know I'm part of this problem. I'm not here to point fingers and call everybody out and I'm the best role model because I'm not. It's embedded in our culture. But I started to challenge that too, because nobody wants to be in the Wild West. Nobody's like yeah sure, I want to be in the Wild West, because who you know like who wants to be there? People don't want to. You know, jump on a boat with a drunken captain that doesn't know where he's going and you know we'll see what happens.

Diego: 7:52

And that's kind of like how we proudly present this industry as well, which again is branding, is positioning. So for me, like, those are the sort of like core elements which we have full control on. There are three, right, the first one was scams and that which is more cultural, and there's a lot, of course, to do with things that are out of control of every single founder, but by leading by example is a way on which you start shifting it. The second one is about the tech talk and the third one is about this element of like. This is the wild west, right, because nobody wants to be there.

Diego: 8:24

So, once you start laying that out, the actions we can start taking as CMOs or brand leaders and marketeers is to start putting ourselves into the shoes of the person we are talking to, right, which is meeting people where they're at and on their own terms.

Diego: 8:45

It's making clear to CEOs, ctos, whoever is the tech lead, that tech is not a differentiating point, it's an equalizer, right, it makes everybody the same because everybody can use the same tech. It's not going to make the difference, right. And then you can build on top of that with brand to create a unique product or a unique perspective or position for your company, because tech can be copied right, like we've seen what just happened with ChatGPT and DeepSeek. Right, like you know, it can happen with any tech company. But as long as you have a strong brand, it becomes much harder for things like that to be taken away from you right. So that's kind of like, in short, and without getting too deep, because I want to see where you want to bring this conversation to the way. I'm looking more and more into that, you know.

Joeri: 9:34

Yeah, you touched upon different things, by the way, the Wild Wild West I know about your newsletter. A few years ago I was also in San Diego about Crypto Conference and I was a singer even making a song Todd Smith about the Wild Wild West. But yeah, it's evolving. You mentioned DeepSeek AI. Yeah, AI is starting already for some time starting to dominate in the conversation now. Yeah, where does that leave Web3? And should we adapt somewhere, or what are your thoughts on that?

Diego: 10:07

Yeah, just to wrap on this concept of like brand in Web3, right, before we jump into AI, because it's a different rabbit hole as well yeah, yeah, the thing that we can talk to people that are more analytical. Now I talk like kind of like conceptually on one side and now I want to like give you numbers and things to think of from an analytic perspective. Right, so there's 10 million web active wallets right now. 10 million, right People that are actively in Web3. When you look Web3, kind of like not just holding crypto Right, people that are using dApps, decentralized applications, people that are using DeFi, decentralized finance, people that are active doing shit every day in Web3, right, there's 10 million wallets.

Diego: 10:47

If you're looking to the amount of crypto users, right, people that have crypto, people that bought or that friend that you know, someone told them to buy Cardano in 2017 and they did and they never went back to it there is about 560 million people that are crypto users. Right. And if you think about the60 million people that are crypto users, right, and if you think about the amount of people that are using the internet, right, there's 5.5 billion users in the internet. So if we are in Web3 building the new internet. We're not winning. We're not winning because the numbers are very, very far right. So my call, with that rebrand and my call into looking to those pillars I mentioned before, is we need to shift the dial and to get faster in towards where we want to be, because we're not winning.

Joeri: 12:50

Yeah, interesting, that's an interesting point and that's you know who's winning. You know, because I see these Web3 people. Suddenly they don't mention Web3 anymore on their LinkedIn profile. They are not Web3 experts, but they are AI experts, right now, so they're putting AI everywhere, depending how you define Web3, of course, if you put like AI in it or not, so yes. And you mentioned DeepSeek, so yeah. And you mentioned DeepSeek, so yeah, keep beating me, let's go there.

Diego: 13:15

Yeah, keep beating me, your thoughts about that.

Diego: 13:17

Tell me where to go there. So let me set the scene. I do not speak about things I haven't done, right? And a lot of people within this last 12 to 15 months have been asking me like, bro, why are you not talking about AI? Right, when I'm doing content, when I'm talking to podcasts, when I'm giving keynotes and speaking, why are you not talking about AI? You're going to be able to AI, you're coming to AI. Like I don't talk about stuff I haven't done.

Diego: 13:45

So I spend the last 10 months in the trenches by working with AI and crypto companies, by investing in AI and crypto companies, by investing in AI and crypto projects and, by you know, I have AI agents that I've been running and learning and trying to run nodes and trying to understand all of it. So I spent literally the last 10 months doing shit. And now this time, my friend, this is going to be the first time I'm going to talk about it, because now I feel I'm in a position that I understand enough to talk about it without being just another one jumping in the hype train, right? And one thing that I'm really excited about is that I feel there is a strong potential now in the combination of AI and blockchain, right, and that's where I want to focus the conversation on, because, of course, we can go DeepSeek Gemini, the ChatGPT, whatever. There's a fuck ton of content out there, and I have not spent a lot of time focused on that side. I'd rather focus on the later that I mentioned before. So what excites me about what's happening in that set of things is three things that I'm really really excited about. I think the first one is where blockchain is really well posed to solve a problem that AI has already created and, I think, is going to exponentially keep creating, which is proof of content, right? Proof of creation, proof of provenance of content. Is this video that you're seeing about Trump shouting at someone, true? Is this video about Will Smith eating pasta? True? Is this you know image that you're seeing about Trump getting arrested in New York? True? Is this video about Pope wearing a you know a puff jacket? True? Like it's going to become more and more blurry, right?

Diego: 15:28

I posted a meme the other day that was, you know someone just saying like the moment you cannot differentiate, you know, whether it's AI and a human or a real picture, right, and it was kind of like oh, that's cool, but then on the other side, it was like the moment you cannot differentiate whether it's, you know, ai or human creation. It's kind of like scary. Is AI or human creation? It's kind of like scary. So we're kind of like almost past that stage because it's becoming more and more difficult to see it.

Diego: 15:56

And I think that here, where blockchain plays a really interesting role, is because of its essence essence of being a ledger where things can be put and immutable, that things cannot be changed and you can look back into that database and see where they're coming from. It's really well posed to solve an issue like that, right, where we can now understand where that image is coming from. We can now understand whether that video was sourced by that news outlet or not. We can now understand whether that campaign was done by that company or that agency or not. Right, when you look into all those ads that we are seeing that are AI generated, now, like, who guarantees you that Coca-Cola did that? We just don't know. We believe on what we see and I mean the internet is all about that right, your truth is whatever you want a truth to be, because now, who the fuck knows what truth is? So I think that there is a role there which is exciting, where you know that proof of source, proof of provenance, whatever you want to call, is interesting.

Diego: 16:57

Now, down the rabbit hole, there is another thing that you know I've been spending quite some time on, which is AI agents, and of course that's happening, you know, in a large scale within Web2 and big tech Salesforce, of course, leading the way with their force, agent force, gpt and many others, perplexity, many others building Microsoft and so on, where you know, or, of course, nvidia, saying that is I don't remember the number, but like a 2 trillion economy, whatever the number, was big ass number. That it is, in fact, something that everybody's kind of like looking at, right. What I find interesting with AI agents within WebTree is that, for me, I cannot see a world on which an AI agent will operate financially on your behalf and going to use the banking system or going to use like credit card, right, the currency for agents is crypto. That's what is in my mind and the why is quite simple. Anybody can set up a wallet, nobody needs to approve it, and as soon as you press approve it, and as soon as you press, you confirm a signature in a smart contract, you can give a certain amount of you know, let that agent to operate on your behalf as a user, so you can have control what it can do and what cannot do. Let's say you can spend a hundred bucks, or let's say you can do whatever you want, right, you can set those rules and therefore it can happen, meaning you can have 30 agents operating on your behalf and it can create 30 wallets in a second and nobody needs to prove that and money is just going to flow left and right. It doesn't even need to be Bitcoin or Ethereum, whatever complex crypto, it can just be simply stable coins. It costs a fraction to transact, it's in and it's global. So that's what I'm really excited about when it comes to AI agents, because I believe that when infrastructures meet, that's when really really big change happen. Right, and I think there's a really good fit there.

Diego: 19:04

Now, when you look into agents per se, right now, there's three categories of agents within our industry. Right, there's infrastructure play, which are projects that are building launchpads for agents. For example, virtuos is one that is leading the way. Crater Beat, a company that I spent five months as a CMO early summer last year, where I started really getting deep into this whole thing. As I mentioned before Cookie Tree, I've been working with them for almost three years now as an advisor, where they build the index of information for agents. They're compiling everything that agencies are doing on Twitter, on chain, and they're providing that information for other agents to use and become more intelligent, right. So that infrastructure play is interesting because is really building the, the guardrails, the foundations, for you know a lot of what I just said to to happen.

Diego: 19:57

And now you, of course, you have memes, which are now transitioning from you know, just memes that are funny to kind of like, okay, what is the utility of a meme? And now shit posting on twitter became an utility, and we've seen that with goat, which was the first one that came out, which was a breakthrough in that sense, and now XAIBT being essentially the biggest KOL and having the biggest mindshare within the industry as well when it comes to talking about market predictions or even just shitposting against other KOLs and things like that. So if you're not too deep into our industry, that might sound crazy to you, but it's happening. And then you start having utility as well, right, which is sort of like the third pillar, which a new narrative that I'm really excited about is DeFi right, which is decentralized finance combined with artificial intelligence right. And why does that matter? Why it matters is that DeFi per se decentralized finance per se has a very big entry barrier, which is still very complex to get it right and people are like, oh, it's not complex, you made it super easy.

Diego: 21:04

Yeah, explain me how to bridge an asset. Explain why we bridge assets. Explain me what sort of like me, how do you set certain criteria so you don't get impermanent loss right? Explain to me what a liquidity pool is right. We haven't made it simple like dumb. Simple for people to get in, still right. And then you need to connect your wallet here and there's that protocol and this protocol and you need to from this chain to that chain so you can get that chain. But you need this to pay the guys for that. It's still super difficult right Now.

Diego: 21:38

Where AI agents play an interesting role within that concept is that you could literally just have a prompt screen and say I want to send money from Ethereum to Bitcoin at this price. Do it whenever time is right, here are the funds right, and then things just happen automatically. So not just about trading, but also moving assets, also about exchanging assets, also about changing from wallet to wallet and things of that nature. So it becomes quite exciting from that angle. So you're kind of like removing the UI, the user interface need for a platform, you know, a DeFi platform, on which you are enhancing that. That's where we start finding fit for technology stacks to come together, because I remember at the beginning, when AI really come about with ChatGPT rollout about, I think, one and a half year, two years ago, I'm not quite sure Everybody was like, oh, this is the killer of blockchain, this is going to kill WebTree and I was.

Diego: 22:50

You know, I just raised my arm like guys, look at? Not quite sure. Everybody was like, oh, this is the killer of object, this is going to kill WebTree, and I was. You know, I just raised my arm like guys, look at your fucking phone. It's not just one technology, it's a stack of technology that makes someone's lives better. That's why everybody has a phone and that's why when you go down the street, everybody's like that, because it changed something, it made something more accessible to them. And now those are the early starts where those stack of technology are starting to get combined, where AI is existing with and without crypto, and crypto is existing with and without AI. But things are converging and in those converging points there is exciting experience that can be built, so I'm pretty excited about that.

Joeri: 23:53

Absolutely. Me too, actually, I know that's one of then. I talked about all these new technologies, how they are coming together, but, Diego, because I'm Belgian and I was there, so I missed your talk in Belgium and I think it was about you also wrote a blog article about it. They lied to you about Web3.

Diego: 24:11

And so.

Joeri: 24:12

I'm fascinated, I'm curious, you know? Can you tell me what it was about and how were people reacting to your talk in Belgium?

Diego: 24:21

Yeah, shout out to Belgium. Four years in a row, four years in a row, I've been speaking in Belgium. So you know, was on for a brochure.

Joeri: 24:28

I know you were at the other event because last year I was speaking at the marketing congress myself, but then you were at the Web3 event in belgium and this guy actually organizes it lived in the same village as where I lived when I was in belgium, so it's so such a small world, but anyway. So yeah, go ahead.

Diego: 24:46

That's funny, yeah, I mean a lot of. You know the. The let's rebrand web3 is a code. You know, a call to arms for web3 founders, people that are beauty in web3 is the way we talk about. It's a lot of the work I do as an executive advisor. There's a lot around that. Right, it's how we get to the C-level and we get them to understand the power of it. Right, and how we can simplify the message so we start getting mainstream towards this.

Diego: 25:13

The lie to you about Web3 is it's a call to the Web2 audience. You know that Marketing Congress is saying a Web2 event and it's me coming from a very raw and clear and no bullshit. I'm not here to tell you. You know we were changing the word point of view to say that's what they promise you and not just like web three. Right, Like I started the conversation with this idea of you know, futurists are really good at one thing, which is, you know, just like coming up with shit. Right, Like nobody knows the future, Nobody knows what's going to happen next, and every time there is a new emerging technology, there are a couple of people that just jump ahead. I was like this is exactly what's going to happen in 10 years from now. Everybody's going to be doing this, and that also happened with Web3, of course, right, we had the NFT hype and we have the Web3 hype, and then on and on right.

Diego: 26:11

So that's kind of like the main idea they lied to you, which is, they told you it's going to save the world. They told it's going to change everything. They told the world is never going to be the same. It's happening with AI right now as well. Right, Like it's happening. You see, everybody, everybody's job is going to be replaced. Ai is going to change everything. I even had a video on the keynote which was, you know, like the CEO from Google saying that AI development right now is even more powerful than the invention of fire. I'll be like better than fire. You know what I?

Joeri: 26:44

mean.

Diego: 26:44

So we are on those stages of hype and for me it was all about like okay, let's come down, hear the facts. A lot of what I talked today I was talking there as well. Here are the facts. So those are things that are happening. Obviously, that was pre-Trump inauguration in there as well. And here are the facts, so those are things that are happening. Obviously, that was pre-Trump inauguration.

Diego: 26:59

But a lot of that was like listen, the governments are buying crypto and trying to understand how they can, you know, hedge economies with it. Regulations in a government level are changing to be more pro-development of blockchain solutions and crypto solutions. Right, small, medium-sized countries are doing it. You see the conversations in the US about the Bitcoin Strategic Reserve. We've seen Bhutan leading the way by buying Bitcoin early. You've seen El Salvador being very vocal about it. Right, it's happening. Right, it's not the future, it's not what we'll have. I don't know what's going to happen, but this is what's happening right now. Right, it's not the future is not what we'll have. I don't know what's going to happen, but this is what's happening right now. Call like micro strategy. You know overperforming the, the, the s&p 500 by. You know hedging on bitcoin. So your house also have like small meat size large organizations doing it and no groups and and and so on.

Diego: 27:54

So that's kind of like what's happening right now and, as regulations shift, as technology gets better and as the beginning of our conversation around rebranding Web3, which I'm quite, you know, a believer of that that's a way which we're going to get more people's attention and making more sense to them, as those things always start combining.

Diego: 28:18

There is something there worth to you to revisit.

Diego: 28:22

You know, because they lied to you in the past and I'm not here to lie, to tell you that this is the future but I feel that there is still early advantages and early opportunities for you, as a marketeer or a brand strategist or a CMO, to review and revisit what's happening, because I feel there is still opportunities for people in that industry.

Diego: 28:46

You know, and it doesn't have to be either or right, it doesn't have to be okay, it's a full blockchain product, it's a full blockchain solution. We're going to go all in on this, no, but there are ways on which you can leverage this technology to make your client's life better, right, or to provide better services, or to solve problems that you before weren't able to solve. So those are the things that I'm just like calling people to revisit and look with a more sober eye to it, as the hype has come down quite a lot from within these last two years since we haven't spoke and and that that's kind of like all what it was about wow, that's a powerful message you did, and every time you know I listen to your keynote or your talk.

Joeri: 29:29

The time goes so fast. So, yeah, people that are now listening to this, this podcast, if they want to know more about you, if you want to know where you you, if they want to know where you will maybe give your next talks, what is, yeah, where would you like me to send them?

Diego: 29:43

Yeah, so most of my content I create on LinkedIn, so you can hit me up on LinkedIn, Diego B-O-R-G-O, you got the pink beanie on. It's not going to be hard to find me. I'm quite I'm quite out there, but that's where I post majority of my content. The Wild West of Web3 is my weekly newsletter, which you know a lot of. What we talk today are things that I expand on my thoughts in there and, yeah, soon. My next step as well, to double down on my mission this year is going to be launching and partnering with a bunch of OG people from the advertisement industry, from the advertisement industry, from the creative industry, from the brand industry, bringing their into the space and helping me deliver, because our goal is to work together with the top 100, top 200 market cap companies in crypto to help them rebranding their own brand and pushing a new narrative on which we go towards the mainstream. So those are the ways. You'll find more to come on the ladder, but we're cooking.

Joeri: 30:44

Amazing. So, as my listeners know, they're always show notes. There is a blog article linked to this podcast episode. Everything that Diego mentioned will be in there links to the website newsletter and so on. Diego, it was such a pleasure and so fun to have you again on the show. Thanks, man, thanks for having me. Let's run it back, guys. What an amazing episode. So I said, a season five of the podcast will be a blast. So if you're not yet following the show, I would say now is the good moment to do this. And also, yeah, share this episode with your friends, with colleagues, with people that need to learn about Web3. They want to get smarter. They need to listen to the podcast episode with Diego. Also, if you haven't given me a review yet on our podcast or Spotify or elsewhere, it would really help me if you give me these five stars, to reach an even bigger audience. And, of course, I will see you next time. Take care.