Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 0:00

A meaningful connection is much more important than anything else, right? And that's personal and professional, that's both you know. So it applies in both directions. And, yeah, that's how I've been feeling in the last seven months. I was able to go from not being sure if I had a network good enough to raise money for a fund. I had some people interested, of course, from my past, but suddenly I just know a lot of people.

Joeri Billast: 0:21

And here we go. Hello everyone and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories podcast. My name is Joeri Bilast and I'm your podcast host, and today I'm so excited to be joined by Francisco Francisco. Boa tarde, tudo bem, tudo bem.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 0:38

That's good.

Joeri Billast: 0:39

Portuguese. Yeah, si eu falo um pouco português. Eu penso, eu acho que eu mor go to Sintra a lot. Okay, yes, okay, guys, this is just to start with, to exercise a bit of my Portuguese. We are here in Sintra again. Maybe you remember one of the past episodes was with Oleg from Sweatcoin. Today is really sweaty weather, oleg said. In Sintra it's not always hot, but today is a really hot day. I'm here with Francisco, francisco Cuartin de Macedo. I hope I pronounced your name right.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 1:12

Yeah it's good.

Joeri Billast: 1:14

It's tough.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 1:14

Even I don't know sometimes how to pronounce a surname. So yeah, don't worry.

Joeri Billast: 1:18

So, guys, we will go for a walk. I will take you with us, let's go. So. And if you're now wondering, who is Francisco? Actually, he has a hedge fund and I guess he will talk a bit more about it, and he also has a past as a trader at blockchaincom, where, at a certain moment even I think he managed around 300 million dollars.

Joeri Billast: 1:43

Yeah, so that's impressive, francisco, I know, yeah, we don't live. We both live in Sintra, right? So it's not far from here. Let's start with something you know, maybe non-obvious, because of course you are with your tiptoe fund, but you have a background. You know, mastering the markets, math, but lately I've been speaking a bit more about meaning. So what was that first crack in optimization mindset for you? Talking more about meaning?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 2:17

It's a very interesting question. Yeah, that's a topic that sometimes I wonder, that, and I wonder how I got all these different triggers along the way. I think when I was 30 years old I was a bit of a turning point. I guess it all starts from the moment that, at 14 years old, I managed to make money with sports betting.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 2:36

I started like that and looking back, it feels like it was quite obvious that it was a moment where, the moment where I realized salaries are not that important as people make them Right so I could make money in sports betting. That was more than a normal salary, you know, in my country, and through that, I think I never felt that pressure that society feel in that trap of I'm going to make a salary, I'm under pressure to make money. You know, it was a whole different kind of narrative in my head compared to most people, and that's why, when I got even more financially free later and I then went to crypto even, it became more and more of a question like what am I doing here, right, like what's the actual goal? Because, like, I chased a lot of things, managed to do a lot of things, even more than I could have thought, and then suddenly it's like, okay, but in the end, why are we here? And I started to work with a coach psychologist.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 3:25

I got in the rabbit hole obsessive, because when I have to focus on something, I cannot stop, you know and so when I got into consciousness, yeah, I started to read all the books about psychology, neuroscience, trying to understand myself, and I guess that process of self-awareness I just had to kind of share about it, because when I started to understand myself better, I understood that people in the world, if they understood themselves better, they wouldn't blame others for everything. They wouldn't, you know, just try to make everything about the outside world, but they would just actually try to go inward and, yeah, and just sort themselves in a way. You know, and that's what I've been trying to do and also share along the way.

Joeri Billast: 4:00

I love that. I love that story, and that's indeed maybe not what people would expect, you know, when they hear someone talking who is managing a crypto fund. You once turned actually $100 into $6 million, if I'm correct, and you said that performance became a shield. How do you now balance excellence with emotional presence?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 4:22

This is the best question. It's the most challenging question and I feel like it's an interesting one. In the beginning I thought I have to choose between being more present, being a better human and being that ruthless machine. I've always been right, but I guess the ultimate goal is for me to be able to really turn on the right thing inside of me, that in the right moments, right. So I feel like all my life I was feeling that accomplishment kind of pressure of like I need to deliver, I need to do this, I need to do that. When I'm in that mode, I cannot enjoy the present Like. I just can't like. It's very hard.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 4:55

But recently I realized that even when I turned on the mode of being more relaxed, more present, more kind of long-term thinking, more creative, less kind of obsessive with execution, you know, I feel like that's bringing me a lot of things that I didn't think were possible. Right, it's not just as clear as am I ruthless machine or am I a good person and am I present person like no, because one very good example of that is I've been always an execution machine, like you know. I need to finish this today, I need to finish this and now I plan. I plan, like I go and I like, how can I minimize the effort, rather than just having this paradigm of the more I do the better, you know, and that, of course, like as a business owner and not like an employee is definitely crucial, right, I need to plan and then, of course, managing money, you know, and find new strategies, you know, I think all the risk management side, management side, all the human behavior side, I feel like I was already quite good at it, naturally because I didn't feel too much emotion when trading. But now there's an even next layer, which is how can I be more strategic about it? How can I move forward, you know, quicker, with less effort, you know.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 5:54

But ultimately, yes, I do have that question internally sometimes which is like, am I going to be the same kind of, have the same capacity if I become more aware, more calm, more grounded? But I do feel like, if you're managing money, it's all about being grounded right, and so I don't think it's a contradiction. Maybe it hurts me in terms of raising money as quickly, but I don't even feel like that's the case, to be honest, because I realized in the end that the more I am with people, the better the connections I build right. So if I went to a conference a couple of years ago, I would try to talk to as many people as possible, meet everyone right. And now I'm very, very strategic and it's not even strategic on purpose, it's just like I know.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 6:36

A meaningful connection is much more important than anything else, right, and that's personal and professional. That's both you know. So it applies in both directions and, yeah, that's how I've been feeling in the last seven months. I was able to go from not being sure if I had a network good enough to raise money for a fund. I had some people interested, of course, from my past, but suddenly I just know a lot of people. I'm in all the right rooms and it's just literally because I started to open up and be more natural rather than being in a chase mode all the time. You know, and it's really funny, that paradigm shift, to be honest.

Joeri Billast: 7:06

Yeah, it's, and actually walking here, you know, here in Sintra it gets you. I really feel your energy like I would have never done it before. Yeah, yeah, you are really someone with a lot of energy, like me too, and I really feel this energy here in Sintra, which gives you, okay, some distance from what you are doing, Because, you know, the space is obsessed with hype and speed. I think I read also that you are neurodivergent. How did that shape your fund or family or future vision?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 7:40

I think that's the only way to have all the things done, but the authority that I did. Honestly, I'm not saying people who are not neurodivergent have a handicap. Of course, people even see it the other way around, but there's definitely some traits that made me super capable in some things, like the hyper-focus, the really going all in.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 8:01

It did hurt me because I didn't have a personal life. I was fully focused, fully obsessed. But now, as I was saying, if I can control that and put it in the right direction and focus on the right thing, if I do hyper focus but on the right things, I think it's actually a very good thing, right, because if I'm not as unconscious as before, when I was fully obsessed with career and like, let's do this, let's do do that, now I'm a bit more aware of what I really want in life and where I want to go. If I apply the hyper focus to that, yeah, and I think that's really kind of, you know, something that's unique and I feel like now, with the fun is the same. You know, like I'm, I'm focusing on the fun, as I have focused on many things before in my life.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 8:36

Yeah, when I mean I mean you know and I know I'm gonna put 100 in it and yeah, and it's not even about like a narrative, it's just literally all my energy goes into it and it's sometimes not even a choice, you know, but it's a level of focus that it's really hard to reproduce if you are not knowing that there is condition, like I do realize more and more people I hang out with end up having that type of condition because, you know, we just have similar kind of ways of thinking about the world, similar visions in general. You, you know, and yeah, and in the end also the consciousness work is quite interesting because a lot of people that are turning into self-awareness are people that have questions exactly because of this type of obsession. And when they go in the rabbit hole of understanding themselves, you know, as people, yeah, it's hard to stop. You know, because you want to know, you want to understand yourself, you want to, and this curiosity is the most important characteristic, you know, and if you are curious about self-awareness, self-development, that's the whole thing, right, and yeah, and I obsess about it a lot, you know, as you can probably imagine.

Joeri Billast: 9:31

I love that. Yeah, and actually you know you mentioned that you are meeting, meeting more people. You have a certain type of people that you attract that come to you, like I also have. So actually you're building your community, you are in communities. How is, how does, for you, the ideal community or circle look like that you want to be?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 9:53

It's a tough one. I think for a couple of months I was only having lunch and dinner with ADHD people and people who are all very energetic like me. But sometimes that also can turn against us, because if we are both talking a lot and super energetic, it know and, and I feel like there's a balance there. I think, yes, neurodivergent is a is a trait that I appreciate, but definitely mixed with a proper self-awareness level that allows the person to have grown already. Like the people I've been hanging out the most that I really enjoy are people that have the same characteristics as me. They're also, you know, kind of. You know they understand me.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 10:26

You know, because that's the thing right in this world, if you are an artist, if you are neurodivergent, in general people will take it as like you don't care about them or whatever. Just because you couldn't focus on something. If I don't talk to a friend for one or two months, I just couldn't focus on that message. You know, like I wasn't on purpose trying to be a bad friend, you know. Yeah, but it's very tough like to keep people close because of that, right, because in the end they interpret things and they just kind of have these own things of their egos that go like, oh, this guy doesn't care about me, you know, and so neurodivergent.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 10:56

But people that really have gone through it and that have handled this and that kind of have tools to teach me, even you know, and kind of tell me how did they do it, how did they raise their kids, without being kind of feeling guilty about the lack of attention they can put sometimes in the present right, like that's one of the main things I have had, you know, like these guilts about how am I raising my kids if I cannot even slow down 20 minutes a day to be with them sometimes? And that's my challenge, of course, and something I need to fight against. But the guilt doesn't solve it, right, you need to really fight and find the tools.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 11:26

It's not about blaming yourself. That's going to solve anything. It applies to everything, of course, but that's how I yeah what I think.

Joeri Billast: 11:31

Absolutely yeah, for me also as an entrepreneur. You know always to try to find a balance between being there for the kids, being there for the family. You know, I think you have been a long time in crypto. What is actually exciting you the most about crypto? If we are not talking about the returns that are possible, of course, there are big returns possible what kind of culture or systematic change would you like to support?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 12:08

I think I will give you the default answer, which is decentralization, you know, taking the power from these governments, banks that are really kind of, you know, making us in these blocks, like this matrix that you live in. Right, like, I would love people to feel free, and for me, blockchain, crypto, is free freedom. Of course, there's a lot of problems, a lot of scams, a lot of bad actors, but that's not really the main thing at all, right, like, for those who are actually into it and understand it. Of course, you know some people take advantage, but that's like everything, you know. When internet showed up, everyone was trying to find ways to make money out of the internet, right, I mean. But in the end, more than centralization, what I'm finding now is really a sense of community, right, because the people that, the serious people in crypto, the people that crypto has attracted, who left banks like insurance companies, whatever and never want to go back, you know they are people that really understand, yeah, this power of freedom, I can tell you, the most important thing I've been seeing in crypto is and it's funny, right I moved to crypto because of inefficiencies.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 13:02

Right, I thought, well, I made my new sports betting. I cannot scale this anymore. Let's go for crypto. You know, and crypto sounded like an amazing place for that because very new fusion. You know a lot of retail action in the price, you know, so it's quite easy to predict some market moves. That's good, right, in general for a trader, that's perfect.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 13:18

But now that I'm raising a dollar in the BTC fund right, so I have a dollar fund and a BTC fund. I'm raising both. If I go for USD investors, I'm talking about institutional people. People are very traditional, traditional, very stuck in a way kind of, and, on the other hand, if I raise bitcoin, it's it's a whole sense of community, right, like it's really interesting because I've been meeting people that I go and I'm like, well, they want to invest in the funds. You know, if you're giving bitcoin, give bitcoin back with extra.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 13:43

You know it's like a yield on bitcoin, let's say and then I meet good people, right, it's not just about I go to someone. They want to invest bitcoin, and then the end of that conversation is probably about consciousness, about mental health. They want to be part of my foundation. You know, like it's crazy. You know it's LPs in the sense of you know investors that are actually very, very good people right, and I never expected that I mean I'm negative about humanity in that sense Like I would expect raising money from people who are very, very different mentality kind of you know, like this old fashioned, I have money, take my money, make me money. They're not really not what I'm finding. I'm finding good people that are like I have Bitcoin, I want to make a yield, can I give it to you? I'm like, of course, that's what I'm here for, you know. So yeah, that's interesting.

Joeri Billast: 14:23

Yeah, that's.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 14:23

interesting, it's because you make it sound so easy, right? Look, I was in a very different place, like now, I know my energy because it's pure, it's genuine, it attracts the right people. And then, on top of that, of course, people who are talented also, because, of course, my brain works fast, like I'm. Yeah, I have a business in mathematics. Of course that attracts, you know, the attention. But I just have amazing conversations, interesting conversations with intelligent people. But more than that, what attracts me is intelligent people who know themselves, not intelligent people full of ego, because that's like I don't want that conversation.

Joeri Billast: 14:55

Yeah, indeed, indeed. Actually, there was one thing that you would wish that more hedge funds of trading. You wish more entrepreneurs or marketers understood, not tactically but philosophically, what would that be suit? Not tactically, but philosophically, what would that be?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 15:12

I think it's just the power of the money they're making. Right, because hedge funds tend to just give their money to well, use their money to buy yachts or buy whatever. There's that association, right, when I even felt bad about creating a hedge fund because I thought people would immediately think, oh, this guy just wants to make money. But my story is a bit different. I've made my money, I'm fine personally, but I had this kind of vision of I need to create something to raise awareness in the world. I want to create a big vehicle for that and I felt like, well, I'm a good trader, people want to give me money, like it's kind of a no brainer, you know. And then in the end I felt like the mission can be actually that showing that hedge funds, if funds, if they know how to use their money properly, the profits they make, this could be the game changer. Right, you don't need to buy a yacht, you can just literally change the world with the money you made.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 15:56

Right, like a couple millions every year in bonuses. Why spend it in buying stuff? Right, and like that's that kind of duality is the problem, because if you are not into minimalism and if you just go more, more, more, never enough. It keeps going right. And I'm speaking against myself because, of course, since I decided I'm going to create a foundation with the profits of the fund, I also want to make it super big. I'm like obsessed with that, right, but but yeah, that's the thing. You know, it's a cool place here.

Joeri Billast: 16:20

Yeah, it's a cool place. Uh, I love to come here with my wife and daughter. I love to come here, guys, let's take some. Uh, let's breathe a bit. You see here, I love to be here. You see, the mountain, the castle, the tourists. It's nice to slow down, to come here. You know, it's not, it's another type of energy than in Lisbon, another type of energy than in other places, but it's really beautiful.

Joeri Billast: 16:50

Yeah, maybe another question, because you also wore the builder hats, right, the trader hats and now the inner work hats, if I can call it like that. What does your integrative leadership style look today?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 17:08

Again. I think one of the things about neurodivergence, once again, is the fact that you can really have feedback loops that are really quick. And I've been super, super lucky to find Alex, who is basically a business partner. I met him randomly in a paddle tournament not tournament in a practice last year and we talked a lot about constants. For a couple of months there was not even an angle about working together, but we ended up doing it and I really emphasize him because in January I remember like he was like helping me both as a person, but also as a professional, like as a mentor, kind of you know, like informal but yeah mentor.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 17:44

And in January I remember this exact moment when someone didn't deliver something in the deadline that I had defined. I was super impatient, I was aggressive, I was like what the hell, why is it not done? And for the person on the other side it just seemed like this guy's an idiot. For me, it was me being controlled by my emotions, like I cannot handle a deadline that's not fulfilled. You know it's me, it's my problem, right, but taking accountability for these things is something I didn't do. You know I didn't sometimes make this distance between my thoughts and what actually is the reality, right, and so that's sort of a big example. I never go to people with deadlines and go like sorry, you know, this is not acceptable, like this is wrong. I mean, if there's no reason, if it's actually a bad thing, I can go and have a conversation. But I was crazy, right. I looked at that deadline. I'm like this is not possible, what's happening and there was a reason for it not to be done, right? So of course, you know, I didn't even try to know and now I don't just go like that and react like that.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 18:34

You know, again, this is not about becoming a soft guy and like, oh no, I cannot lead, it's not at all right. It's literally about controlling your emotions, controlling your feelings and acting accordingly and just being a nice person to the outside world and just, you know, being real, right. Like if there's something to have a conversation about, you have it. But if it's something that's your problem, your impatience, your biases, then fix it. You know, work on yourself. You know, and I think that's that like. I think since january I never had a conversation where I just jump on someone. I think you know, at least like not to that intensity when I just go, because I'm just impatient internally, you know. And so, yeah, like now, I'm just really trying to be more strategic. I think that change is very, very, very clear in the last couple of months. You know, much more strategic, for sure.

Joeri Billast: 19:15

That's wonderful to hear. Actually, for me, it's actually I talk about that. I give some keynotes, often about AI, and I explain. You know, trust is important, showing up as your authentic self. It's also sometimes important to show some vulnerability, like for me. Like you know, I'm Belgian and now, if you're in Portugal, I speak a few languages, but English is not my native language, so you know, you hear my accent and now actually it's for me a way to show up. People understand. Okay, yuri is not perfect, but he knows a lot about this, he has this good energy and so on.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 19:58

How do you, um, or maybe what kind of people or places make you, you know, feel safe to show up, like you know, your authentic self and and maybe, yeah, a little bit vulnerable, I would say I, I, I do it as much as possible nowadays, like I, even if it's a context where I'm surrounded by people that are, unfortunately, blinded by ego, I still try to show up as myself and try to really go against this tendency to people, please, and to adjust myself to what others are, you know, and stuff like that. I've been definitely more loyal to myself in that sense, and just the energy I have compared to what I used to have, you know, because in the past I would be like, yeah, people pleasing and stuff. I like I go somewhere, I say what people want me to say, I always think about should I act like this, should I act like that? The energy I was spending because of that, yeah, it's completely insane. I was always tired, of course, I was always burning out because I was always trying to measure the universe around me. Alert mode, you know, like fight or flight. It's crazy. Feel that pressure if I go and I see a big banker, or if I go to a context that's very traditional and I go like, should I still be that ruthless and act like that? But in general, I try to fight that. But, of course, if I'm in a place like this, if I'm, you know, like with the right people, maybe the right people. It's not even so much about the place. I think it's really good. I think I have this thing where it's really for me, not so much about the place.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 21:09

I went to Madair a couple of weeks ago on holidays and my sister was kind of saying, like you just don't enjoy holidays, like you don't stop, but on the other hand, the moments when I stopped the most and when I enjoyed the most was really the conversations I had with people, like with her, like you know, oh, how is it going? You know, let's talk about our childhood. This happened, that happened and drink something and eat something. And I'm already a bit disconnected. I'm already thinking about work or thinking about something. So it's funny People could say, oh, you came from holidays, you must be super relaxed. No, I came overthinking, I was super stressed, I didn't do my routines, my meditations, et cetera, so I was really accelerated. So you come from holidays and you are feeling worse. So it's like it's all about our internal side, Like it's not about the place you go if you have holidays, if you don't.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 21:53

You know, my burnouts, yeah, partly were because of work, but mostly it was because I was just not able to manage my thoughts. I was just obsessed about getting things done 24, seven, you know, no matter how much how tired I was, how incapable I was, because I was too tired, you know. And so, yeah, that's really kind of how it went a bit, yeah, boxingcom I think that was one of the things that happened. I mean, phd was the same. I was living always like that, you know, like just let's just do as quick as possible, you know, and as an executor it was amazing, of course. But now as business owner, I'm forced to grow, otherwise I'm I'm screwed, you know what Completely you know.

Joeri Billast: 22:26

Yeah, like you said, it's also good to find the right community, or sometimes it's good, like I said, to take some distance. For sure, if there was like, if you could design a gathering or a retreat that really matched your values, like stillness, intelligence, honesty, how would that look like?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 22:47

Yeah, that's an amazing question. I think what works for me and I've been trying a lot of different types of retreats I've done kind of silence retreats. I've, yeah, different contexts, also some retreats where it's more kind of cognitive at first but then you really work on like somatic level, the body and all of that. There's a lot of things we can do right. Like, I mean, a retreat for me is just kind of when you are overwhelmed and I get that quite a lot and you really cannot stop, you know, for five or ten minutes in the day because you are just too accelerated. You just need this kind of you know, slow down, let's reset. But in the day-to-day you should do it right, like the version.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 23:21

What I do in a retreat for five, six days, whatever, I should do it inside my day intraday. I should just have moments of like resetting, like 10 minutes, 15 minutes. But sometimes the energy is so quick that I just don't manage to, you know. But that's my own fault, to be honest. And like when I feel like it's out of control, I really go for retreats.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 23:37

But on the other hand, to your point, I more and more appreciate when you just gather with community and you spend time with good people. If I could spend four or five days in a format that's not really a conference, informal, where you can discuss AI, you can discuss the future of the world, you can discuss vision of stuff, because it's fun, right, but most of all, you would just basically, yeah, you would spend time with people that are self-aware. That's kind of the first thing I mean if I spend time with people that never spent 10 minutes of their life questioning why they're in a certain way or what's actually their accountability, their responsibility, and they're accountable for instead of projecting on others. You know it's tough, it's ongoing work, but I think that's the type of people I want to be surrounded by.

Joeri Billast: 24:14

But that's amazing. I actually asked a question, but maybe you heard about it. But I'm organizing a retreat here in Sintra.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 24:21

I had no idea.

Joeri Billast: 24:22

This is actually what you're describing. We will talk about this a bit later.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 24:26

Do I have copyright on the idea? No, damn it, it's actually called guys.

Joeri Billast: 24:30

it's called Sintra Synergy. So if you're now listening to this podcast episode, you can check it out. You feel a bit of the vibes here. We are actually almost doing a mini retreat because we are working here in Sintra. The Sintra Synergy retreat will be about gathering people 15, 20 leaders doing some workshops together, but also connecting, sharing some ideas, some challenges, going on a hike, really connecting with each other and making deeper connections. If you want to know more about that, yeah, just send me a message. Hey, quick pause. If what Francisco is sharing resonates with you and you're craving deeper conversations like this in real life, check out Sintra Synergies. It's a retreat. I mentioned earlier, an intimate gathering of founders, vcs and creators in Portugal just before Web Summit. You'll find the link in the show notes or you can go to wwwcentralcynergiescom. And now let's go back to the episode. Now another question I had for you about Web3. What do you think that the Web3 world now leads less of right now and what you should? Yeah, you love more founders to public DMRs.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 25:56

Yeah, I think what we are facing in Web3 is just the immaturity of the market. Still, right, I think people blame Web3 for things that are just. It's again the same topic I mentioned before. We blame others, we blame the universe, we blame the outside world when it's all about humanity, right, if humans were not, you know, trying to scam others, try to play this win-lose game, trying to fool others, we wouldn't have this, all this bad energy in web3 right now. It's not web3 itself, right, blockchain is amazing. Technology is amazing. The bitcoin values of the core community that I'm surrounded by are just, yeah, hard to match, you know, because it's people that are kind of free mentally and they just like see the world in different, in a different way. They are not just living in that kind of, you know, rat how do you say rat race?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 26:42

yeah, yeah and, yeah, I guess in web3 the problem is really that, right, so you can raise money just with a token that sometimes doesn't have any value and people pretend that it has a value but then becomes a bit of a pump and dump it's. It's quite tricky, you know, because, for example, with stage, I started this project and we were definitely full-on mission. You know we had to create a token because it made sense for the project itself, yeah, but then it's really hard to kind of, you know, be separated from all these people who are really just, you know, dumping on people and then it's easy for people to even associate you with that because you just created a token, right, like it's. It was really a the moment that I look back and I feel like, yeah, we tried our best. The thing is, the project was also very dreamy, you know, trying to make artists make money and kind of save this world where, like, labels are making like all the money and artists are not making enough.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 27:32

But ultimately it was really hard and we have a token and suddenly people can always claim that you know you have been trying to scam them or something, because the token goes down. There's a lot of people bump, like pumping, dumping. You know doing things to your token and you lose control over it, like very quickly, you know. And in the end, this culture of you know doing things to your token and you lose control over it, like very quickly, you know. And in the end, this culture of liquidity, you know tokens are good because you have liquidity right. You can you don't need to if you buy a stock of something that you know it's a company that's not public yet you cannot sell it right, like if you buy, you know, shares of your favorite startup you cannot sell it, but with tokens you can sell.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 28:02

The problem is, because it's so easy to buy and sell, you create this kind of space for people to just start doing some games. Right, you can do some marketing tricks and pump the token. Now it's higher, you can sell it. I mean, let's think Donald Trump, you know, in a smaller version, you know. I mean it's quite crazy that we accept in this world that someone just manipulates the market, you know, in the front of everyone's eyes and people just laugh about it, you know, and no one does anything about it. I mean it's quite crazy.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 28:26

But that's why I'm saying Web3 is just, you know, another vehicle for the bad actors to use. You know, it's not so More than that. And apart from all this, you know Web3 has amazing potential. If you have just fair founders that are selling tokens to VCs that are serious also, are not waiting for pump and dumps also to VCs that are serious also, are not waiting for pump and dumps also, and you know they just create things with the right energy, we could be doing something amazing. We have tools, something like the brain. If you use the brain to overthink, it works against you If you use it in the right way. Amazing potential, right, it's like everything.

Joeri Billast: 28:59

Yeah, it's a positive message. We are coming to the end of the podcast episode, but I'm now thinking is there one question that you are asking yourself and still don't have the answer for?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 29:11

maybe I have this problem because of this feedback loop I have. In one week sometimes I'm clear on something, and something super obvious. Next week I'm like, wait, no, this is not obvious. But the other thing that wasn't obvious, actually it is, you know. So, like I have these realizations, also because I'm going through all this process and journaling and all these things, I keep questioning myself the main question, I guess, and I kind of know the answer, but the main question would be still how can I find that balance between being kind of this ruthless person who executes and who gets all the accomplishments I know I can get to, but at the same time not miss on out on, well, mainly the, the growing up of my child, my children, right that's kind of I more generally living in the present, but specifically being there and making sure I don't harm them.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 29:54

I do think they're going to see realities that they wouldn't see if they weren't my children, you know but at the same time, kind of going on the other side of like I'm not going to be just a father that thinks they are present but they are not, and that's also's also a reflection about me. If I'm present, I'm more happy?

Joeri Billast: 30:07

Yeah, that's what I want to say. What makes you happy, I guess being present, yeah but the creativity needs to be there.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 30:13

I think that's one of the things I cannot blame my creativity and my curiosity and being always curious about everything, because I love that. You know, it's just that there's a mix and there's a patience I need to create so that when I have an idea I don't need to jump on it right away. So that's really a challenge, you know, but it's not so much a question, I think it's. I know the answer, I just need to kind of feel it more in my body.

Joeri Billast: 30:32

Absolutely Well. I hope you feel it a little bit more Now. We have done this walking podcast episode here in Sintra. Yeah, francisco, if people want to know more about your fund or they want to connect with you, where would you like me to send them? I?

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 30:46

think LinkedIn would be a good way.

Francisco Quartin de Macedo : 30:47

I even share a lot there, you know, kind of about my journey of fundraising, about even the consciousness side of things, even though yeah, I don't feel like in the next couple of months I'm going to share as much about that, because now the fund is going live and we need to focus on, you know, kind of sharing the things that are more relevant for the public. But yeah, I would say LinkedIn first and in general, yeah, nhdcapital, you know, for the fund and checking out the fund. Of course I'm happy on LinkedIn if requested to send documents about the fund so people may be interested. But yeah, that's it.

Joeri Billast: 31:17

Okay, as our listeners know, there are always show notes linked to this podcast episode. The links that Francisco mentioned will be in there to his LinkedIn, to his fund. If you want to have more information about that, be sure to contact him. Yeah, francisco, it was really a pleasure to do this podcast recording here with you in Sintra. Thank you, man, really appreciate the opportunity. It's always good to talk about this thing. Guys, what an amazing episode. Again a walk here. If you think that everything Francisco said and he said a lot, a lot of energy, a lot of good ideas, inspiration If you think this is useful for people around you, be sure to share this episode with them. If you're not yet following the show, this is a really good moment to do this. If you haven't given me a review yet, if you give me these five stars, I can reach an even bigger audience and, of course, I would like to see you back next time. Take care, thank you, guys.