Vikram R singh: 0:00

Growth is not about attaining one level. Growth is also sustaining that level, which I believe like we have done very handsomely by the NISO board.

Joeri Billast: 0:10

Hello everyone and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories podcast. My name is Joeri Billast and I'm your podcast host, and today's guest is someone who is not just building technology, but he's really building ecosystems someone who is not just building technology, but he's really building ecosystems. Vikram R Singh is a founder and CEO on Antier, one of India's leading full-stack blockchain consulting firms, now with over 700 team members. He has been recognized as one of Asia's most promising business leaders by the Economic Times and is also the founding member of Davos Web3. He's a sought-after keynote speaker, startup enabler and a firm believer that blockchain is not just disruption, it's direction. Vikram, welcome to the show.

Vikram R singh: 1:02

Thanks, Joeri, thanks for having me here so great to the show.

Joeri Billast: 1:04

Thanks, yuri, thanks for having me here. So great to have you. I'm really excited to have you here, vikram, with such, I would say, a lot of experience. But to start this podcast episode with, I am wondering what was now the spark that first drew you to blockchain, not just as a code, but as clarity.

Vikram R singh: 1:24

as clarity, you called it right so it goes back to 2017 actually. So 2017 was the year when we had a very small milestone in our entrepreneurial journey right, so we bought a building, so we shifted to our new infrastructure. We were like 75 or remember at that point of time and and I was looking around what should be our growth driver more from here onwards. And crypto was making a lot of noise and when I fell deeper into it and I was completely sold out on the sacred vision it had behind its invention For example, the financial inclusion was the challenge. For example, sending money across the borders was challenging.

Vikram R singh: 2:05

We used to say, if you want to send money to UK, just take a plane and deliver it manually, physically, so that would have been like much easier. And banks which store your money and but at the same time, they can always pass the line and spend more, so they just represent the value. You know what you are holding, but they may not be holding the actual money. So, complete control over assets, which was the main promise of blockchain. I would say so, when I get to know this, it was like a complete awakening. So there is a technology which is just not the truth, but can build the truth and accountability within the system itself, where you can reduce the third parties or maybe mediators or maybe human interventions within any kind of value chain.

Vikram R singh: 2:55

So that's what attracted me in the first place, and that was the year when we started moving the entire foundation towards blockchain. And today, by grace of God, we are close to 700 members and during this journey we have seen three beer markets. And we could do that only because of the power of a vision, I would say, because we foresee something which very few people could see at that point of time, like where it can go. And today we believe that we are in the best part of the history where the positivity is there in this ecosystem. We, especially from the US sector, about the crypto, about the stable coins, about this technology solving large scale problem. So I would say this is the best place to be right now, and that was my trigger point.

Joeri Billast: 3:42

Oh yeah. So it's exciting times we're living and thank you for sharing that now and if you are not the first, actually I heard it a lot different people told me about india and what is going on, and then I also saw your bold statement on your linkedin. You know about india, and so when you say that india can become Web3 capital of the world, what would that really require from builders, from regulators, from storytellers?

Vikram R singh: 4:12

Yeah. So India has always been known for tech talent and, as it would have been after when the crypto was invented, most of the tech development also happened here as well. It's a lot of startups came up in Mumbai, bangalore, right, and if you look at the initial wave, the exchanges like Z-Rags, ydc, all set up like then they have to move on. So I believe that we don't need to justify to the world like what we are today, especially with respect to the talent in 3Space.

Vikram R singh: 4:45

We ourselves, like here in this region, have trained more than, I would say, 5000 plus people here, and even 95% of our resources learned blockchain after joining us. So we made our all the bit to make sure that what we have owned in-house also spread around us as well. So all we need some older regulators, like some in the compliance side of it, so that we can take those polls which have been people waiting for, or we need some more aligned storytellers, like which can make you understand the, the power of the, the solutions which blockchain bring on the table. You know the trust part. So these are the few things which we I would say which are required. As far as the tech talent is concerned, we are always already the number one, and we are trying to do every bit which we can do.

Joeri Billast: 5:36

Yeah, I love to hear it and, like I said, yeah, there's a lot of tech talent in India and I was talking to a friend of mine who is also Indian and he was saying, oh, a lot of things is happening, you really need to watch. But yeah, now you've built into one of Asia's leading Web3 firms, as someone who often advises founders on positioning, on growth, so I'm curious what kind of frameworks or philosophies helped you scale with purpose?

Vikram R singh: 6:11

I would say the very first thing is like belief in what you are doing. Number one I am very much fond of two, three quotes which are always part of my, I would say when we are fighting with the odds. For my, I would think I would say when we are fighting with the oats. So the first quote goes like this I'm here for a purpose and that purpose is to grow into a mountain, not to reduce myself into a grain of sand, and this part is very important that I will strain my potential till the limited price for mercy. One project after another, we always tell ourselves like, okay, okay, we will keep coming back to the delivery in the same fashion, with the same like passion, the way we handle the previous project or make better than the previous project. Then there is another quote, which is very closer to the heart, which is called like you will face many defeats, but you must not be defeated. So it proves very handy when we are into a beer market and we see, okay, the leads flow, which was X number now has gone down to Y number. But we feel like, okay, we are here for maybe not to be defeated actually. So we stood tall, we stood very strong in front of all these challenges, and so these are some of the the philosophy.

Vikram R singh: 7:30

But we also believe that growth is not all about being everywhere. Growth is also about being where it matters, and consistently enough. Growth is not about attaining one level. Growth is also sustaining that level, which I believe like we have done very handsomely by the grace of god, and we've been able to, like the control, grow or maybe register 35 to 40 percent over the last three years, like year on year growth, but we have it done. So all these philosophy where the dna leadership DNA is also stay erect. A man must stay erect not to be erected by others. There's the DNA which goes for our leadership player as well. Yeah, these are the very philosophy I would say. That helps you to answer your question.

Joeri Billast: 8:16

Yeah, I love what you shared, also the fact of playing the long-term game. You have been growing. You have had difficult times, more easier times. You have had difficult times, more easier times. You have had these bear markets. Now in Web3, there are these companies that want to create hype on the short term. It's important that you get known, but hype is I don't know. I'm not really a fan of hype marketing because it's really short term. But what is matters in Web3, I'm organizing myself events, I'm advising also Web3 companies and what's really what's a struggle for them is the trust they need to build the trust. So a question for you would be like, yeah, how should we balance? How can founders balance, like the struggles with need to create hype, if you want to call it like that, or then they get to need to do marketing but also have a created trust?

Vikram R singh: 9:09

Yeah. So see, hype is very loud. I would say so it's being loud. Trust is being quiet. Right Once, even if you look at some of the greatest startups in the Web3 world, they were built in a bear market style, when they didn't need it because they were solving a real problem. That was the reason they were able to scale and grow. That was the reason they were able to scale and grow. So we always believe in building for the core problem, right Around the core challenge. The markets move fast, but our compass stays very principled, principled progress. So that is our compass. So we always believe in solving real world problem, and that goes down to how to present your message, how to present the narrative so that it can be understood by the people, the very end users who are going to use it. That's what we believe like more on the milestone based incentive, not voice based motivation. So that's what we believe like more on the milestone based incentive, not voice based motivation. So there's the okay, absolutely yeah, I get it.

Joeri Billast: 10:20

It's yeah. Of course, when you think about hype, sometimes you think about people, think a lot about crypto and now these movements on the market. But you mentioned building yeah, solving a real problem with Web3 technologies and then, of course, that spilled trust because it's now built on Web3, because you use Web3 to good things about the technology, but that's just a technology. Now we mentioned hype. Now these days, there is a lot of maybe we cannot call it hype, but AI is everywhere and I think you once said that blockchain isn't competing with AI, but completing it. It's interesting because I moderated a panel in Porto a few months ago about blockchain and AI converging, but also I'm curious to hear your take about that, about blockchain and AI.

Vikram R singh: 11:12

So see, blockchain is trust, ai is intelligence, and when trust meets intelligence, the adoption is much faster Again. In other words, you can see, the intelligence is for. Blockchain is the memory for that intelligence to sit in. So I would say there is no competition. It's like a mindset. Ai has to be of mindset, ai has to be the mindset. Ai has to be everywhere.

Vikram R singh: 11:36

Nowadays, whether you are building layer one, layer two, layer three, whatsoever you are doing in every sphere of the value creation, how the value is treated, how the value is delivered and how the value is captured, which is the sales and marketing part, value being like. I'm trying to address the business value, what a value a business creates. So, every sphere of this, you need blockchain, because blockchain brings the trust right. So when you have intelligence built on the data and if the data is compromised, then the trust will also be compromised. So, in my opinion, we will see a lot of any application going or using a blockchain down the line, right Provided we solve the interpretability issues and bring more standard frameworks in the blockchain space. So that is where we want to see the adoption of blockchain-based intelligence happening quicker and faster.

Joeri Billast: 12:41

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's actually the way I'm seeing this too, as a marketer, but also as a marketer, it's important. I mentioned already storytelling, but how the role of the marketer in making Web3 more, I would say, usable, understandable and trusted. Yeah, I also love your thoughts about that. What do you think?

Vikram R singh: 13:04

So see, if you are a Web3 marketer, I would say it's very important to start translating the transformation part, right? So not the tech. So you don't need to sell the tech. You know that we are talking. You need to sell the value with what it is creating for the customers, right? So that's very important. So be the interpreter of intent, not the jargons. So that's one thing which marketers need to keep that in mind while promoting their product or ideas, because, at the end of the day, people don't adopt technology. They adopt stories which reflect them where they can find themselves as the end users.

Joeri Billast: 13:52

Absolutely, and that's why my podcast is called Web3CMO Stories. The story part I always say to people is the most important part. It's how you tell the story right so that people listen to stories. Since we were children, we like to hear stories. It's a once upon a time that we listen. We are not listening to technical messages, sales messages, and maybe that's directly connected to my next question. It's about the mistakes. I think you already mentioned about not talking too much about the tech, but are there maybe other mistakes that you see that early stage founders are making in their go-to markets?

Vikram R singh: 14:32

So I would say like a mistake, I would say part of their own learning curve, like everybody's learning curve, even when I'm learning as well. But there's some core, fundamental rules like which you need to always keep in mind. So, especially for the people like the founders in Web3 space, we tend to talk more about features. You know a lot about the features of our product. At the end of the day, we need to talk more about features, a lot about the features of our product. At the end of the day, we need to talk more about the problem we are solving. So that's one thing that's very important to keep in mind. And, at the same time, your go-to market should solve three things like why now, why you and why should I care as well? So these are the very three things which you need to answer before promoting anything in the Web3 space.

Vikram R singh: 15:18

And at the end again, don't scale the silence. You have to test signals early. It's very important that you iterate, iterate, iterate. Wherever you find the product market fit. Then you have to keep rebuilding your narratives as well, the problem you're solving. So you have to keep rebuilding your narratives as well, the problem you're solving. So, if you're able to do that and if you're able to keep in mind these few things, then I think you will have a real success. And always start locally first, then globalize that is very important.

Vikram R singh: 15:48

I love it yeah.

Joeri Billast: 15:49

India, of course you are already there. India is a big country and you've spoken about India's rise from Punjab to Goa to Davos. Is there maybe something that other regions like Europe or Latin America can learn from India's momentum in Web3?

Vikram R singh: 16:06

Absolutely yes if you look at what we have done, achieved in the last maybe decade or so. You look at the UPI how these initiatives like UPI, Aadhaar and digital identities have scaled, and Web3 is going to be the natural next step. We're just waiting for the more clear regulations and pat in the back by the government to all the founders of F3, right, and so we can. The world can learn a lot about execution, so it's like execution and chaos from India. Even when there is a chaos, so the execution is very density. So that's what I would say the world can learn from India.

Joeri Billast: 16:51

Nice You've built. You've been building across multiple brands Anteer, neve Labs, abs, academy. Now I have founders unify their narratives across products teams. I'd love to hear from you how do you personally keep your core message?

Vikram R singh: 17:11

clear. Do you personally keep your core message clear? So we always believe that we are not building brands, we are building a system, a sustainable system which is able to scale. For example, on one hand side we have a development consulting environment, but at the same time we also have a name lab initiative development but at the same time we also have a Navelab initiative which is largely for, which is basically second chance venture studio by NTR right. So not only we incubate our own products, but also help people build their products within that venture studio as well. So again, our goal is always focused on system which scales and which are sustainable, not one-time brails or one-time valuations or one-time profits.

Joeri Billast: 17:59

Yeah, a way to scale. Also, vikram is what I see with the companies I'm talking to working with these partnerships and co-creation. So I'm wondering what is your approach to partnerships co-creation? So I'm wondering what is your approach to partnerships co-creation.

Vikram R singh: 18:24

Are there certain traits, certain philosophies that you look for in the people that you are collaborating with? Yeah, so I think the very first thing which partners should bring on the table is like equal risk, equal reward. Right, that is one thing they would need to understand what kind of shear risk and shear rewards are going to be there. Second, it's very important that your energies should match as well. If one part is not is energetic and another one is not that much, so your trip cannot have been faster. Right, and one must align to both of the partners, or maybe partners must align to one single direction which is non-negotiable the alignment is non-negotiable right Towards the direction set. So, keeping that in mind, we have launched one initiative which is called Co-Pilot Program with Anteer right, so this is available to visionary founders.

Vikram R singh: 19:12

I would say we have some checklist, like not everybody can be part of this Opel program, so we have small checklist. And so the idea is, if you have a vision to become the web3 unicorn, maybe produce a greater impact in web3 space, you come to us. Whatever money you are trying to, you want to spend on your initiative, not only we support you on your initiative, but also make sure that whatever money will be spent on this initiative by you, it will always stay the same, even after two or three years. You can get the same money back as an exit and we also take some equity from your startup as well. So it's a model which can be separately, which is very much customized, I would say, from founder to founder, but from the 10,000 view. This is called our co-pilot program, especially for those people who have vision to achieve something in Web3. Called our co-pilot program, especially for those people who have vision to become to achieve something in Web3.

Joeri Billast: 20:16

Thanks for sharing about the co-pilot program. Now, if you are mentoring a founder entering Web3 at this moment in 2025, what would be your compass? What would you tell them to ignore?

Vikram R singh: 20:36

So, rather than I would say we would always advise them to focus on their users, what they need, how they need, when they need. So these things are very important, your first hundred users, your first hundred followers, dedicated followers. They are very important to you, right? Because they show you the first interest. But you, as we say, like a talent helps you open the door, but it is the actor which keeps it open. So it is not just the one good graphics which should get you a follower, or one good message. Whatever you are offering to your user, it has to be sustainable as well. So and you don't need to run after perfection you have to iterate it again, as I said, and keep improving upon your product. In the time it becomes a habit for your customers. So there are some of the. I would say my two cents will be for the young founders.

Joeri Billast: 21:29

Yeah, I love this answer. And yeah, sometimes they just also wait too long before everything is perfect. And then we also mentioned about features. So, yes, there is already a lot of golden nuggets in this episode. Let's come to my final question. I don't know if it's a difficult one, but I would like to ask you if there is one belief that you used to hold about growth or success and that you have since outgrown.

Vikram R singh: 21:55

I would say not one, but multiple. I didn't tell you my story. Actually, I give you a very small glimpse of our story. I started in 2004. It was more of an accidental, circumstantial startup. I was bedridden, I had spondylitis, I could not work anywhere for two months. Then I took my OPC and took a rented space and started my journey as an entrepreneur, and for the first five years I had zero idea what an entrepreneurship is. So one belief like you and I never went to a college. My full-time education was plus two, and after that all of my education has been correspondence, and already two beliefs would have been shaken.

Vikram R singh: 22:38

And then we kept perfecting our delivery, because when we started in 2005, we were more of a web 2.0 company. So till 2017, we kept perfecting our sales, perfecting our delivery, perfecting our management right. However, the one thing which really did the trick for us, I would say that was marketing. When we were able to perfect our marketing, we were able to start scaling 2x, 3x, 2x, 3x, 2x, 3x, and that's one of the reasons why we are here, why we were able to outgrow our competition. We have seen three bear markets, but even in the bear market, we have a continuous flow of the inquiries, continuous flow of new customers asking for the solutions, the visionary one. So that's when I would say two, three beliefs which I've been able to overcome or maybe outgrow. I hope that makes sense.

Joeri Billast: 23:36

Yeah, I love that. And, Vikram, I see this often. When there is a bear market that companies they have, they look at their budget and they see this revenue and they cut marketing at that time. But if you continue to be visible, then we can continue to grow. When it's even harder I didn't tell you, but when I started the podcast episode, I also had a certain moment. It was like this bear market. I continued to make podcast episodes and people were keep on building and creating content and now all this content is over there at the moment that not so many people are motivated to do this. So, yeah, that's a really good motivating message. So if people are, now they listen to this podcast episode and they love to know more. Yeah, what you are building with Antir, where would you like me to send them?

Vikram R singh: 24:26

So you can always visit our website. You can always write us at info at ntsolutionscom or maybe at ntsolutionscom, so we are always there. We have more than 500 people on the LinkedIn as well, so you can reach out to our representatives in one day, so yeah.

Joeri Billast: 24:46

Amazing, vikram. As my listeners know, there is always a blog article too, which is on my blog, about this podcast episode, so everything you mentioned will be found in there if people want to read about the links that you mentioned or maybe some references that you gave. Thank you so much, vikram. It was really a pleasure to have you on the show.

Vikram R singh: 25:09

Thanks, thanks for having me. Thank you very much on the show.

Joeri Billast: 25:15

Thanks, thanks for having me. Thank you very much, guys. What an amazing episode with so many value coming from Vikram. If you think that this episode is useful for people around you, I'm sure you will share this episode with them, because they also can get a value out of this podcast episode. If you are not following the show yet, this is a really good moment to hit the subscribe button. If you haven't given me a review yet, if you give me these five stars, I can reach an even bigger audience and, of course, I would like to see you back next time. Take care, bye-bye.