Welcome And Guest Intro

John Karp 0:00

We already have a digital identity that is in many situations maybe more famous, more stronger than our physical identity.

Why NFTs Felt Like A Movement

Joeri Billast 0:10

Hello everyone and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories podcast. My name is Joeri Billast. I'm your podcast host. And today I'm so excited to be joined by John. Hey John, how are you? Hey Joeri, thank you for having me. Super excited to be there. Happy to have you on the show, John. Guys, if you don't know John Karp, he is the organizer of the Non-Fungible Conference, also known as NFC. And John, like always, I like to dive straight in. So you're building this conference for several years now. And before we dive into the event itself, I am curious what originally convinced you that digital art, NFTs, cryptoculture would evolve into a movement big enough to justify a conference around it.

John Karp 1:00

Yeah, that's very interesting. Actually, uh I think we should move back maybe in 2020, something like this. You know, my previous life, I was an event organizer already, you know, co-managing a company called Be My App, also known as hackathon.com. So basically, we're like a hackathon organizer all around the world on every technologies. And COVID started, and I was doing online events. I was chatting with some friends who were helping me to organize another blockchain conference. At this time, I knew the blockchain, I was uh organizing events related to that, but for me it was not like I was not seeing something like the game changer. I was not so attracted, you know, by the financial aspect of the blockchain. But at this moment, you know, when I was chatting with people, they started starting to tell me, hey, you know, there is this new stuff, you can buy a land in the metaverse, and they were okay, looks looks weird. So I love that. Let's try. You know, basically, you know, I think I was curious enough to try, and you know, just because at this time I just wanted to open and try stuff. I didn't really get it, you know, about the metaverse. But when I saw that the blends have been buying, you know, started to, you know, basically become extremely valuable. I was, you know, I had to dig a bit more. And when I started to dig, I discovered all this NFT technology stuff. And what catched me at this moment was really the art side. Because I don't have an art collector background in the traditional artwork. But at this moment, I found the artists that were talking to me. Talking to people from the internet generation. Uh, even if I'm a bit older, I'm not born with internet. Internet came to me when I was 15. Every generation has been knowing a new art that was, you know, basically matching with the period EDOS. Street art was part of this like 80s uh street culture, hip-hop, where something new was coming, with also all this outcast culture that came out and that became something very important, but everybody recognized himself in the street art, in the street wear, in the street music, in the thought that was really like a key movement. But if you check Warhol with pop art was doing the same at the moment of the big industrial post post-war world, basically, where everybody was getting a washing machine and a Campbell soup, it was also illustrating this new phase of democratization of goods and in the same time democratization of art. There are 1,000 examples like this at every period of the life. And so I saw the art that was materialized by the internet generation. Culturally inspired by video games, inspired by Pixel, by the glitch effect, by the pop culture, but the new pop culture, by the manga. On the other hand, in a way, politically, by the crypto culture, the decentralization, the idea of being a bit against the banks, against gatekeepers, against galleries, something more directional between artists and collectors. And and so, yeah, and also network. Because it's all the thing with internet, it's network. You know, you have the not on one hand technologically the provenance, but on the other hand, also when I own a piece of digital art, I know exactly who are the other collectors of the same similar piece from the same artist. I'm connected with them. I know the provenance who used to own this piece, what is the history? It's the network art that is also very new and that is also connected with this internet generation. And so for me, when I realized that, it was super obvious that all these new geniuses, because it was a lot of geniuses, a lot of key artists, coming with a different proposal about this new era, basically, this new century of internet, asking the questions about what is a human, what is ownership, what is being a community at the digital era, what is the future of AI, all these questions, you know, key society questions of the century. I saw them ask by this artist, basically, what is art, of course? That is also always a key question by artists. And so I said, okay, you know, I have the chance to be in the right place in the right time with the new Banksy, Warhol, Picasso, Rembrandt, whatever. So, you know, it was a no-brainer for me. I had to jump into that, starting collecting first, you know, and then, you know, starting connecting these people. And this is how I ended up also with NFC. Because I was going to a lot of crypto events. It was very blockchain. You know, when I was talking about NFTs, it was even like actually today, you know, that the hype is done, is the same. You know, people from the blockchain world will tell you, oh yeah, wow, it's a nice technology, but blah, blah, blah, yeah, all this JPEG stuff, I don't understand, it's bullshit. You know, they're talking about it the same way people used to talk about Bitcoin 10 years ago. And so for me, you know, I still have this strong conviction about it, but I also have the conviction that people who are thinking the same than me, or people who are curious to discover more, should meet together somewhere. And this, as I had an even background, I ended up by saying, okay, let's do this event.

The Metaverse Is Already Here

Joeri Billast 6:47

Makes total sense actually. It's interesting because when you started NFT, I think uh a few years ago, I already did events in the metaverse, art exhibitions, but not NFTs, but it was with marketers that created their own art and we did events in the metaverse. Now, today you have NFT, and so now wondering in a world where you know knowledge spreads through podcasts, YouTube, AI, why do you believe that people still travel across the world to attend conferences like NFC in person?

John Karp 7:18

Yeah, no, that's you know, I think it's completing each other, you know, and I I love this virtual world, and I was, you know, I'm still believing actually, whatever happened, we live in the metaverse. We are right now, you know, Joeri. I'm not sure we physically met. I think maybe we never physically met.

Joeri Billast 7:37

I was at the NFCC meet last year, John, but you were so busy.

Why IRL Conferences Still Matter

John Karp 7:41

So basically, we spent more time together online than IRL, you know, and that's the point. You know, we already, you know, via social media, via Zoom's call, Zoom whatever podcast called Google Meet, and now moreover, you know, with all our agents also chatting with each other. You know, we are already in the metaverse. You know, even if maybe this metaverse don't have the 3D materializations, you know, that we used to think about, you know, maybe a few years ago, and that may come back. Actually, in a few more years, we already have digital people and we live digitally, and so this is why you know we already have a digital identity that is in many situations maybe more famous, more stronger than our physical identity. And so for me it's very important to have this in mind when you think about also the act of digital collecting, because it's already happening when kids spend, I think it's six billion a year to get skins on Fortnite, or when kids, I say kids, but I'm part of this kid, could that you know, when kids spend I think it's 1.5 million billion a year in the new Pokemon unpacking app, you basically you can unpack cards, collect them, and have your deck of collection. It's all virtual. At the beginning, it's free, and if you want then to buy more cards you need to pay, and this kind of stuff, you know. At the end of the day, people are already paying for to get digital collectibles. For me, you know, it's something a bit like something that in yours will look weird that it was not existing in our time, is the ownership. Because when you buy your skin on Fortnite or when you buy your Pokemon card, you are not free to resell it the way you want. You are not free to give it to someone if you want, you are not free to swap it with a friend at school, you are not free to do whatever you want with it. And so this is the only thing simple stuff that is ownership, that will be, I believe, standard in many industry for everything digital. At the moment, you know, we're spending most of our time and at the end of the day, most of our money on digital. I believe that ownership will be a part of the important thing that we will get.

Joeri Billast 10:05

Yeah. And so, of course, there's a really important thing that you just mentioned. But when I was at NFC last year, I also love that we had people from all over the world connecting with everyone here in Lisbon. And then I'm wondering what do you, as an organizer, what is for you the real value that people are searching? Is it information, is it feasibility, is it community, something else?

John Karp 10:31

The bit of all of this, but I believe community is the key. This is what I believe in. The more we will be digital people, the more we will need IRL stuff. And at the end of the day, spending time with people you love, or spending time with people you don't know, but discovering them more. So you're accelerating a lot of things that you cannot do behind your laptop. Of course, it's amazing to be behind your laptop, but in few hours with real people, you you are exchanging 1,000 more information than what you're doing in a Google Meet. So you're accelerating your relationship, you're accelerating discovery, and at the end of the day, you're accelerating your discovery about yourself. And for me, this is what is important. At the end of the day, it's meeting people, it's communities, it's of course related to uh sharing each other and celebrating, it's also about business. But at the end of the day, when people go back to their place after events like NFC, you know, their eyes are a bit more open about different topics, like, okay, yeah, this is where, this is what I need to do, this is where I need to focus, this is what I need to investigate, this is the person I need to focus on. So, this is for me what is important in terms of self-experience, what I am event like NFC are providing, basically.

What’s New At NFC This Year

Joeri Billast 11:50

Yeah. Yeah, and I love what you also mentioned a bit earlier in the episode here that you know meeting people in person after you are connected online is really helpful to you know to make these connections. Now, like I mentioned, I was last year then, I was on a panel at the meme stage representing Rio this year and visited the website. Can you explain a bit what is happening this year? I've seen there are topics like stablecoins and so on. So explain a bit.

How NFC Builds Community

John Karp 12:18

Yeah, I recommend everybody to go on the website nfcsummit.com because we changed, you know, it's also part of our DNA. Every year we come with something new. And if it's always the same, always the same speaker, always the same vibe, always the same topic, you know, people get bored. And so you need to challenge yourself and start everything like it's the year zero. And it's also part of the trailer and the communication that we've been pushing the last few more weeks. We communicate a lot about this year zero topic. Because for us it's important to say not of course it's the year number five, but in the spirit, it should always be the year zero. And that's really like uh what we try to do. So, you know, with one basically we have this concept with one ticket, you have access to eight different events. And all these events are not blockchain only, actually. Of course, you have the historical event that is non-fungible conference, where you will have all these key digital artists, you know, that are making that are making the art world today. Actually, you know, today when we're recording this, we are like one week from Art Basel Hong Kong, where basically the most attractive, interesting, exciting thing that will happen during Art Basel is the 010 section that is basically the focus on digital art. And you will see exactly all these key artists that are the key NFT artists that are making Art Basel a bit more interesting and that makes people talk about Art Basel is digital art at this stage. So these people are there. You're right, we try to mix the different crowds. So we have a patchwork of different events that are happening in the same time because we have a huge site this year with different pavilions, different buildings. And so we have one event dedicated to stablecoin and more focused about how corporate, how institutions, and how users can leverage with the technology and use the blockchain rails basically for faster payment, for more international wire transfers, for all these things that are bringing where basically all the finance world is shifting now to use the advantages of the blockchain. But we have much more topics actually, actually, because it's much more different things that will be part of the program. On the B2C end, we created a full new event that is called Kawaii Summit, that is totally focused on trading card games, Pokemon, plushes, Kawaii culture, Japanese culture, and that will she's also kind of connected to this digital world where we are in the digital collectible world. I think there are a lot of bridges between the audiences, and so we want to mix them. We have the chance to have key people from this world that will be there. A big brand called Sume that is creating huge sculptures that is very famous in this space. We have a lot of creators and artists also from different manga. So it will be very interesting to have them. We have, of course, AI is everywhere, so there are two dedicated events about AI. One is called Agent versus Agent, that is an agent hackathon, coding hackathon, basically, with a lot of surprises and a lot of challenges inside of that. But it's open to anyone. To beginners, it's very open. The idea is to learn also for people who want to learn. And about learning, we have another event also that is co-organized by a partner that is called ASI. ASAI is school of art, culture, and AI that are basically classes for kids to teach them how to become an AI artist, basically. There are a lot of things like this, but we have even wider topics. One event is called Longevity Day, and it's organized by some partners that are very focused on this topic, and they will have that dedicated area. It's organized by Ina Patrick, that is basically a podcaster on this topic. And so they are bringing 30 people, really comparing all the methods to live longer with wisdom from the past to uh basically radical life extension methodologies. So we try to mix the crowds. We believe in cross-pollinization. It's a big cross-polinization, and having people who are coming for something and discovering something else. And so we'll have a basically this portfolio, I would say, of eight different events that will happen in the same time, and that will be uh all of them are very, very exciting.

Joeri Billast 16:53

I think it's interesting, John, that you change the event every year, which makes it more interesting because you don't know what will be there. But but in terms of building a community, because many people are struggling to build a community that actually shows up in real life and not just online. So, what have you learned about community building running NFC? And it's interesting for me that you change every year. So I'm wondering how that works, that you get them showing up every year.

Events In An AI-Driven World

John Karp 17:23

I think it's something that is important uh in terms of community building, is you need to give first. For me, it's one of the key, and this is what makes us also be different. There are many others that are doing the same, but it's something that is special for us. We are not just a commercial event. And we try to give a lot as much as we can space to artists to exhibit. This is what we've been doing the last three years. We created a full immersive room with giant screens that is like high, very expensive productions. And we gave the chance to a lot of artists, you know, from very famous ones but to emerging ones to have their dedicated show for one, ten, twenty, thirty minutes on the screens and have their own exhibition there, basically, and being able to share that, you know, with their community and be discovered this way. You know, and we try to give exhibition that shows as much as we can. We also are very open in our mindset. You know, in every initiative from anyone, we try to integrate them. You know, when people, you know, many when people want to organize side events, we try to integrate them as much as we can inside the events to keep this kind of community feeling. And now this year, this way also we're communicating on the village topic, because now we have a full site with streets with different buildings. We like this idea of yeah, we have this community living in a village and everyone can go to each other even and enjoy that. And that's how it's sticking a bit with this decentralization ethos in a way, even if you know I'm the final decision maker on many topics. We try really to give the hand to many people to do their stuff.

Joeri Billast 19:11

There is something for everyone I hear. Now let's zoom out a little bit how you see the role of events evolving in the next five years, because we have, of course, AI reshaping discovery, distribution, attention. Um, any thoughts about that?

John Karp 19:27

One thing I know it's very hard to anticipate, to be honest. You know, we can see trend, we can feel being what I see and what I believe is that actually it's one of the few areas that where AI is not is not like a big competitor. You know, because meeting people in real life, this is one of the few things, you know, that so far you cannot ask your agent, you know, to handle that. I see a very interesting future. I think the interest will be about what you want to do when you meet people. And I believe also the thing is that at the end of the day, the traditional business meeting where people meet face to face to close deals and do stuff, for me maybe they are the less important stuff now, because yeah, we started even before AI to have more meetings, Google Meets became more important. But what you want to do when you meet people in real is to celebrate, is to enjoy, it's to discover each other. This is why even for NFC we have this kind of festival because whenever you do, even if it's a business event in a way, because there are a lot of people doing business there or creating business relations, at the end of the day, I think the experience is very important. So I believe that event should focus on what you cannot do at home.

Joeri Billast 20:59

And so imagine someone who is coming for the first time attending NFC for the first time. What kind of transformation, John, do you hope that they experience between the moment they arrive in Lisbon and then the moment they leave the conference?

Where To Follow And Closing

John Karp 21:15

If they come for the first time, I think I don't know, I'm pretty sure radical, but you know, I've been organizing events for like 15 years. And my objective is really radical life change when you go to this kind of event. Of course, it's not happening for everybody, but I like this idea that events making the inception for people, touching the point about what they really want to do. And so you go to an event, you don't know why, you don't know how. There are many topics, many things. You can try, you can feel, you can meet, and you are living with the idea that you need to change, and you have a better idea about what you need to change. So for me, this is really what I hope. Of course, that's the ultimate layer. The other layers are I would say meeting people that are bringing you some value. And some of them will get financial value. And I really believe that because partying with people, enjoying with people, enjoying art, enjoying the beach because it's in Lisbon in June. We made it on purpose. We don't want we didn't want to do something in December in Helsinki. Even if I love Heledinky, it's a different topic. We really want to have something that is about celebration and that is about enjoying. So when you enjoy with people and you create relations, a lot of people told me I was at NFC, I've been partying with these people until 4 a.m in the morning and finally they became my biggest client. So you know this is the kind of thing you know that happened. There are sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's planned it's planned. But at the end of the day, everyone, you know, people don't know sometimes hey should I go? Should I do it? I don't have the time, I have anything to do, I am busy. But when they play and it's the same for me, you know, it's should I go there? You know, it's a plane ticket, it's something I need to organize myself, etc. But then you know when they come, they say wow, okay it was valuable. And so this is what is interesting for me about even, you know, the relation you create always transform into something.

Joeri Billast 23:16

Well John we are coming to the end of this podcast episode. Thank you so much for sharing your story and everything that's new about NFC. My listeners if they are curious to know more about you, connect with you or know what NFC is all about, where would you like me to send them?

John Karp 23:34

They can just follow me on Twitter and send me a message John Karp on Twitter or on LinkedIn if they want. And then they can just go on nfcsummit.com and get a ticket if they want I will send you a special promo code with a discount if they want so they can enjoy and have a reasonable price ticket basically.

Joeri Billast 23:55

Thank you so much. As my listeners know there are always show notes everything you mentioned will be found in there your links and the promo codes thanks John it was really a pleasure to have you on the show.

John Karp 24:08

Now thank you very much Joeri thank you for uh your podcast I also a true believer in about you know the value of this kind of content I listen a lot of podcasts and I love that. So thank you very much Joeri for what you're doing and yeah see you very soon.

Joeri Billast 24:22

Thank you John by the way one thing that stood out to me in this conversation is how culture and digital assets are starting to merge especially with things like manga collectibles and communities. Interestingly the main sponsor of this podcast Rio recently launched a manga series called Revival which shows how Web3 projects are starting to support creators and cultural ecosystems not just financial infrastructure so it's fascinating to see those worlds coming together actually like what you've been building with Kawaii Smit. Guys what an amazing episode so if you are so excited as me be sure to share this episode with other entrepreneurs, marketers, friends, people interested in new things in art that love to come to Lisbon. So be sure to share this episode with them. If you're not yet following the show this is a really good moment to do this and hit the subscribe button. If you give me this five stars it really helps me go a long way and of course I would love to see you back next time. Take care