Betting On Results

Speaker 0:00

We put our money where our mouth is and say to them, okay, well, you don't believe it, let me show you. We'll we'll do it. The deal always is if it works, you pay me back. If it fails, well then it's monopolis.

Trust Without Marketing Fluff

Joeri Billast 0:12

Hello everyone and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories Podcast. My name is Joeri Billast and I'm your podcast host. And today I'm honored to be joined by Megan. Hey Megan, how are you?

Speaker 0:24

Hi Joeri. Great to be joining you today.

Joeri Billast 0:28

Great to have you. Guys, if you don't know Megan Stark, she's a CEO at Cubic ICE, B2B and Industrial Marketing. She really has lots of experience in the space, and she's also the director at Hola Business. And Megan was one of the guests at my recent Sintra Synergies retreat. So, Megan, as my listeners know, I always like to dive straight in. I mentioned that you have a lot of experience. Nearly four decades in B2B marketing. What has stayed true about how trust is built, even as everything around marketing keeps changing?

Speaker 1:12

Joeri, I think it's we we're very much based in the industrial sector. So we find our client base are very technical, they're engineers, and so there's no such thing as any fluff. You have to be open and honest with them at all times. And I think that probably brings about a sense of comfortability with them. But it it really is, you have to be honest and credible what no matter what you do with them. No fluffs and no overpromising, and also being very comfortable in actually saying, I actually don't know, because often they are more technically advanced than we are. So we actually do. We can get, we we are honest when we say we don't know, we need to investigate it, we'll come back to you. And I think also part of building that trust in this tech in this sector particularly is your competency in the in the industrial sector, in understanding what a PLC is and what a drive is, etc. And once you actually they know that you understand their business and their industry, that builds trust regardless of what's happening in the marketplace.

Why Teams Resist Change

Joeri Billast 2:20

Yeah, I think if you know indeed what you're talking about, and not just, you know, there are so many people out there that say that there are consulters or marketers, and it's just the general things. So I think that's a really important point you mentioned, and that you understand the nature of the sector. And you mentioned that you cannot know everything. There's a lot of change these days. One of the biggest challenges probably is the fast pace of change and getting employees to embrace it with excitement. Why do you think so many teams resist change even when they know it's necessary?

Speaker 2:55

It goes without saying people don't like change. They like to be in a position where they know what the outcomes are, they like to know what the routine is, and and so when change comes around and things like AI has caused a lot of discomfort for a lot of people. And clients are exactly the same. They want to know what the outcomes are, they want to be able to control and be in control of the situation, and that is doing the same thing over and over again. You then have full control. So I think that's probably the resistance comes from that lack of understanding. Fear also is getting it wrong. You know, if you make a mistake and you you don't know what you're doing and something's new, you don't want to have people see you as being incompetent in what you're doing. So I think once leaders actually encourage their staff that it's okay to try something and it's okay to fail, you'll have people adopting it more quickly.

Where AI Adoption Really Breaks

Joeri Billast 3:56

Yeah, makes a lot of sense. If you want to play it safe, of course, then you'll stay in the gray zone and you cannot make the difference for your clients. But of course, it's always risky to do something new. Even now today we have AI adoption, it's going faster than ever. Where do you see the real friction happening most often? Is it the technology itself? Is it leadership decisions? Is it human behavior?

Speaker 4:21

I I think it's just human behavior. It's it's again, as we've just discussed, resistance to change, resistance to new things, and also not understanding fully what that new thing is and what and and there is still a lot, as fast as AI is um changing the world than it is, there is still a lot of uncertainty on what the benefit is to use AI. And I think a lot of corporates, which I think we can get into a bit later, are not necessarily using it in the right way. People aren't using it in the right way. But once I think once you see practical examples of how it can be used and how it can streamline monotonous and functions that don't need a lot of human intervention, I think people will adopt it more. We finding that when we show our clients how AI can be used to solve certain problems within their organizations, they then are far more open to it and are more easy and adopt it more easily.

Automation Versus Real Relationships

Joeri Billast 5:22

Yeah. Actually, next week I will be in Belgium giving a workshop for a bigger organization talking about indeed how to use AI. And yeah, it's definitely the right the right point of view to just tell them how it can help them for real life problems. Now, when we were when I, you know, we were discussing that you could come on my podcast, you said you wanted to explore the balance between AI, marketing automation, and personal engagement. So whether you believe too many companies get the balance wrong today.

Speaker 5:54

So yeah, it's a bit of a a pet thing for me or like a big like a can get on my hobby horse for it. But I think companies can over-automate. They're trying to automate the relationship instead of the repetition of jobs that need to be done. And I think this causes a lot of problems with how clients and cut their their customers are feeling. So typical tasks are AIs used to write LinkedIn posts or DMs back to clients, and you can see that they've been automated or they've been pre-configured, or we send a personalized email out to our customer base, and you know you it the way it reads sounds exactly as it's been automated. You get fed into a sales funnel that goes down an email journey, and again, you can see it's an automated sales funnel. And that whole thing, the other one is also my pet hate is chatbots, where I haven't yet become a customer and I'm not looking to solve easy, quick things, but now I'm getting told to speak to an automated chatbot who doesn't know who I am, doesn't know what I want, and and the type of questions I want to ask can't be answered by the chatbot. As I said, these are the things that companies are doing wrong, where they should be looking to use automation to process their data or to streamline lead scores or incoming the mundane day-to-day repetitive tasks should be used and and automation should be used to to fix those, not some of the things where it is being used. Yeah, so AI should be used to remove busy work and not replace the connection.

Joeri Billast 7:44

Yeah. Yeah, because that was one of the questions I also had there in in in industrial and long sales cycle businesses. You want to use automation, but you don't want to make the buyer feel like they are processed. And you want them to feel understood. So I don't know if you wanted to add something to that too.

Speaker 8:02

Yeah, so again, also I'm seeing AI as being used to replace junior stuff, which again is it should never replace a human being. It should be used to amplify or streamline a human be human being's functions and make them more efficient at what they do. So it should never be about AI replacing the human aspect of any job. It should be the AI replacing the monotony of a job and enhancing the human's ability to actually deliver in a much better, faster, efficient way.

Proving Marketing Drives Revenue

Joeri Billast 8:40

Yeah. Yeah, I saw a LinkedIn post, I think it was earlier today or yesterday about that. Instead of hiring juniors, maybe see what they can do with AI. But as you said, it's the monotone, the repetitive part, or you know, the part that takes a lot of resources, but it's maybe not the most value-adding where you can help AI to automate that. Now, talking about marketing on itself, many leaders still treat marketing as a support instead of as a strategy. What is the conversation that helps them finally see marketing as a real growth driver?

Speaker 9:17

Look, I I think any any any leader really wants to know what the benefit is to the organization and how it's going to make the or help the organization to reach its budgets and its targets better. And in the old days, it used to be marketing works, but we just don't know which 50% works and which one the 50% doesn't. However, since the advent of digital marketing, which has been absolutely exciting for us, is everything is now measurable. So for a leader, if you can tell your, your ex, your C-suite, we can now track trap and trace everything we do, they are more likely to listen. Because now you can see which 50% is working. And I think for us, that is what digital's all about, is that everything we do within the marketing environment and with the advancement of the digital and autumn and this is where automation is great. You can now automate and track everything that you do. So every lead. And when you can trace back a marketing tactic to revenue in the bank, you do not get questioned. Your C-suite will say, absolutely, we're in, we'll do it. And in fact, the fact they will give you more budget because if you can prove that you literally trace it from a lead or from an email or whatever it is, back to revenue in the bank, they're never gonna question it.

Joeri Billast 11:50

Absolutely. And that's actually one of the main things in my book, The Future CMO, where I speak about it. That is the financial accountability. You know, as a leader now, we do marketing. But if you can show, you know, what it what is the impact of it and you can make it measurable, then then I think that's what you need to do as a CMO. Now, I want to talk about loyalty because you your clients stay with your company cubic eyes for an average of 15 years, which is which is amazing. What does that teach us about retention, reputation, and what actually creates long-term loyalty?

Ungating Content For AI Discovery

Speaker 12:30

I think it it always goes down to one is really getting into bed with your, and when I say getting to bed, a true partner with your customer. Is part of our ethos is if we get a new client, the entire team goes for training with that client at their premises. We get to touch, feel the product, we get to understand the product, we get to we make an effort to understand the subtle nuances within their environment on how they speak and talk about their products and their industry. Each industry is different, whether you're in the oil and gas or the water or the mining industry, they all have their own kind of link. And if you don't understand that and you don't use that in your messaging when you start to communicate with them, you're going to miss that market. They're not going to respond or feel like you're hearing them or talking to them in their language. So we put a lot of effort into that. We also then literally celebrate their wins as much as it as if it was our own. So we've always, again, stay abreast of all the latest trends, what's happening. And we do a lot of international training for our my own staff to make sure that they understand what is happening in the marketing industry. And we take that back to our clients. So we make sure that they are always informed, they always know what the latest trends are and what other companies in the industrial sector are doing globally from a marketing point of view. And we then make do things together and we try things. We recommend things, we'll try them. Some of them fail. And then we'll sit down and we'll analyze why they fail. Why. So I think part of the that loyalty comes back from being willing to try things. I mean, I've literally with my own clients put my own money, used our money to test a suggested marketing tactic that we think will work for them if they really resist into it, to prove that it does work. And when we do that, they they they see that we are are willing to lose. So they can we put our money where our mouth is and say to them, okay, well, you don't believe it. Let me show you. We'll we'll do it. The deal always is if it works, you pay me back. If it fails, well then it's my loss. So if that kind of attitude, the the the willingness to to try new things and to fail together, I'm very lucky in that the clients do. They're happy to try things and and sometimes they don't work. And that's when we'll sit down and we'll analyze them and say, well, why didn't it work? And look at things. We we help our clients to be better. We're doing my we're doing various different marketing tactics. And if we find that pace possibly their internal sales aren't dealing with the leads partly, we'll go in and we'll train them and say, Don't worry about it. We'll help your guys understand why these leads are so critical and why they're time-sensitive. And we'll put that kind of effort into it so that they, their clients, or that our clients, sorry, are more successful because the more successful they are, the more successful we are. And I think that relationship of literally being embedded with them, an extension of their own organization, has made us successful and has created that stickiness and retention.

Joeri Billast 15:58

Wow. Yeah, and it's also building trust by doing that, as you mentioned, you know, with your own money, you want to show that it works. And if it works, it's even fair, you know, that they that they pay you back or that, but that way you you build a trusted relationship. Now, one of the of course the big subjects we also discussed it during the retreat is the way that buyers now today research and shortlist suppliers. And I'm curious to hear your opinion or your view on that. How should traditional B2B companies retain their visibility when the first touch point is mostly now happening inside of AI instead of Google?

What Small Retreats Unlock

Speaker 16:38

Yeah. So it it Joeri, it's an interesting one. So typically, and I'm talking the industrial market because that's what I know, is they've always been very protective over their IP and their knowledge and their expertise, and they don't want to share it because they don't want to have their competitors know what they're doing. So with time, they've kind of really relaxed a little bit, but still a lot of their content and and really rich content sits behind gates. It's gated content. And in order to access it, you have to put in your email address or you have to divulge something about yourself in order to get access to that rich content. AI can't go through a gated portal or platform. And I think with time, that's where we're trying and we're pushing very hard with a lot of our customers that have a lot of rich content behind an email gate. We're trying to get them to release that because AI has changed the way people do things. If I go into an AI agent and I actually an LLM and I search for something, I'm gonna get the answer anyway. So why keep it locked up? Rather be part of the answer when somebody searches in in one of the LLMs that your organization comes up because you do have that rich content, you have that knowledge, you have that expertise. And the AI LLMs or agents will see and actually access your content because you've got such good content. So this is the fight we're fighting at the moment, is where we're trying to get people to ungate their content so that it's freely available. We then obviously using various different tactics, AEO, etc., to make sure that the bots have access to this content so that when somebody searches, our clients are not invisible. You don't, if you're not, if you don't allow this, you are going to become invisible and you your brand is going to disappear.

Joeri Billast 18:36

Yeah. Yeah, it's I talked about that in my my TEDx talk recently about you know the trust and reputation also in the book. It's important, it's it's less about you know building campaigns and outreach and contacting as many people as you can, but it's about us being mentioned and being trusted and as you said, being found in these uh LLMs.

Speaker 18:59

Yeah, absolutely.

Joeri Billast 19:02

Now at the retreat, huh, at Sintra Synergies, I think you like that too, uh, the the people shared a lot of insights openly and honestly was a small group. Is there anything that you could share that stood out for you there? Anything, did it shift anything in in your thinking, in about your business or leadership?

Speaker 19:22

I I think for me it was it the the the actual size of the the retreat was really interesting because it was really small, but I think that's what made it a success. It's all too easy when you go to a conference and there's 80 or 100 people, you can just disappear. And and in fact, you can check out, you don't have to add any value. When there's 12 of you, you you you have to participate. You have to you you don't have a choice. And I think that for me was really good, where people were also open, honest, and and willing to share some of their experiences and what they were going through. And for me, that was really, really good. I think that was the value in in that people were prepared to share so willingly. And and again, I think it was because of the size and because, you know, th there was only 12 of you to participate, so you had to get involved, right up your sleeves and get involved. Yes, um, whether whether it changed my thinking, I don't think it changed my thinking. I think it it reinforced what I believe is the right way to do things and a culture uh about the way we go, we go about things, in embracing new technologies, be being willing to fail at them, to try them to, you know, say, okay, we think this is right now, and maybe it does, and we work, use it for three or four months and then discover it's actually not right. So absolutely. Um, I think it just reinforced that culture for us.

Integrity As The Career Advantage

Joeri Billast 20:52

Yeah. Yeah, you did the small group, of course, if you have between eight and twelve people, it's going a bit out of the comfort zone, of course, sharing sharing what you're struggling with, but it was really the goal to make that happen. And this can also be really helpful for people if you can do that. Anything that that surprised you about, you know, hearing other people speak?

Speaker 21:15

So I I think the the for me it was seeing that actually globally we all s we all face the same challenges. Whether you're in South Africa where I'm based, or whether you're in Portugal or the UK or Ireland, we're all facing the same challenges. And I think that goes without saying. And I think also for me, the takeout was that I made new connections, new friends, and honestly believe that I can reach out to any one of them and actually say, I have this challenge, I have an issue, what do you suggest? And I think I'd get the feedback and the help and the assistance, or even just a sounding board, which I think is valuable.

Where To Find Megan And Closing

Joeri Billast 21:56

Yeah. Well, I'm really happy with the result that people got for Nutri. Thank you for sharing that, Megan. Now, towards the end of the podcast episode, I'm wondering if you can, you know, give some advice for the next generation of B2B marketers that are now entering this AI-driven world. What would you tell them to protect at all costs, even if you know everything as everything changes? Yeah.

Speaker 22:23

Yeah, I think for me it's about don't lose you absolutely have to protect your integrity and your reputation. Those are those are inherently part of who you are. And nobody can take it away from you. As much as technology advances, always be open, be honest, and have integrity in everything you do. Because if you do that, you you you'll you'll always survive. People will respect you. It's when you start to play games and do and and are not honest or dishonest. That's When you lose your reputation and you will fail.

Joeri Billast 23:02

Thank you for these wise words at the end of the episode. Megan, now you know, if now people they want they would like to know more about everything that you're doing, where would you like me to send them?

Speaker 23:14

Absolutely. You can they can email me directly. So you've got my email address which is Megan S at cubicscubrcrce.com.

Joeri Billast 23:26

Okay. As my listeners know, Megan, there are always show notes linked to the podcast episode. I will put your information in there. Well, it was really a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thanks, Joeri. Thank you so much. Guys, if you yeah, if you want to know more about Megan, be sure to check out the show notes. Be sure to follow the show if you aren't already, and also if you haven't given me a review yet, this would really help me if you give me these five stars to reach an even bigger audience. I would also love to mention my sponsor Ryo, the Japanese ecosystem, and was a crypto wallet which is available in different countries, and it's actually crypto for grand mums, what they call it. And so, yes, thank you so much for listening and uh would love to see you back next time. Take care.