What Brand Clarity Unlocks

Roxana Hurdacas 0:00

What brand clarity does is that it gives you the why, the what, the how, the when, the rhythm, the trust, and the self-trust. It's basically all inclusive.

Welcome And Meet Roxana

Joeri Billast 0:13

Hello everyone and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories Podcast. My name is Joeri Billast, I'm your podcast host, and today I'm so excited to be joined by Roxana. Hi Roxana, how are you?

Roxana Hurdacas 0:26

Hi, I'm fine. Thank you. How are you?

Joeri Billast 0:30

I'm good. Sunny weather in Portugal, but everywhere in Europe, I think these days, so that's always nice. I love this energy. Guys, if you are wondering who is Roxana. Roxana. She's a B2B brand strategy advisor and managing partner of Drivian. She helps medium and large companies achieve brand clarity. Roxana, my listeners know I always dive straight in. My first question for you is actually.

Founder Bias Versus Customer Reality

Roxana Hurdacas 1:14

Well, it's the same with how parents see their child versus others seeing the same child. Founders' perception is biased. They have worked on that product, on that company, on the experience, and they have given their best. At the same time, many are in love with their product and their work. Now, this is a filter that both helps and stops them from walking in the customer's shoes. If you start telling a founder about the problem that a customer has experienced and they start explaining to you why that customer is wrong, I know it's a gap. If a customer didn't understand something, the brand could have explained it better. If a customer is disappointed by the product, for me, that means that the brand has overpromised and underdelivered and so on. Now I'm not saying that the customer is never wrong. What I'm saying is that the answer to a customer's feedback should be, okay, what exactly made you feel or think that way, and what can I do about it?

Joeri Billast 2:33

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense indeed because all funders are in love with our product. They think it's the best, but if the customer doesn't understand it, there is something wrong. Why do so many companies confuse brand strategy with messaging, with visuals, campaigns, and what does that misunderstanding cost them over time?

Brand Strategy Is Not A Logo

Roxana Hurdacas 2:55

Well, I think that branding has a branding problem. Many people still believe that branding is logo, confusing the two main parts of brand identity. One that they know because they can actually see, which is visual identity, logo, fonts, colors, and one that they do not know or understand because it's not something you can look at the same way you look at a logo. I'm talking about positioning, differentiators, brand attributes, brand personality, ton of voice, unique value proposition, and so on. Also, this theoretical part of brand identity has two parts. One that consists of arguments of why you do what you do and how, which is strategy, and one that you can see through messages like visuals and campaigns that you were mentioning. The issue is that this last part has marketing as a distribution channel, and this causes the confusion, I think.

Joeri Billast 4:03

Okay, yeah, I think you put it very clear there.

Roxana Hurdacas 4:06

You were asking about the biggest risk that a company faces. Uh I think the biggest risk is that they will be diluting the brand identity because they will be tempted to always come up with something new, which will make them walk away from core brand identity and strategy, or it will make them forget or ignore that red line that connects everything a brand does or says, which is strategy.

Joeri Billast 4:37

Yeah, absolutely. That's a core pillar, right? That you have your strategy and that you're not always adapting because you think yourself something. And you cannot change your strategy all the time because strategy is by per definition long-term, right?

Roxana Hurdacas 4:51

It's a route you follow. You can adapt, you must adapt depending on the context, but you know where you start from and you know where you want to get to.

Joeri Billast 5:01

Yeah, indeed. You need to know where you want to get to because if you don't know that, and you're bull in a China shop and you're doing everything, but you don't know what you're doing actually.

Early Signs Of Lost Clarity

Roxana Hurdacas 5:11

Yeah.

Joeri Billast 5:11

Um Roxana, in your work with medium and large companies, um, what are the early warning signs that a brand has lost clarity?

Roxana Hurdacas 5:22

I think what I look at is if they either do too much and too diverse or they don't do enough. It's a paradox. But these are two extremes that for me are signs that the brand doesn't know what to do and why. If they do too much, they confuse their audience, and their audience needs consistency on the same thing in order to build perception and relationship and trust. I see brands that drag about doing so many things, but the thing is they look desperate and lost, trying to find the right way. They tried this and they tried that, and nothing comes to an end. If they do too little, they obviously don't know what to do or how or why, and they also look lost. What brand clarity does is that it gives you the why, the what, the how, the when, the rhythm, the trust, and the self-trust. It's basically all inclusive.

Joeri Billast 6:27

And you mentioned an important word, which is perception, of course.

Questions That Reveal Brand Truth

Joeri Billast 6:31

When I was preparing for the podcast episode, I was looking at your posts on LinkedIn, and you post quite a lot there, Roxana. Uh, and you often uh talk about uh brand perception research. Um, what should founders and marketing leaders ask their customers, their employees, their partners, if they want to understand the truth about their brands?

Roxana Hurdacas 6:54

Now, the founders and the marketing leaders will naturally tend to focus on perception about the product or the customer experience. A brand strategist, on the other hand, will focus on the bigger picture, what the brand and not the product feels like, because they're not the same thing. Also, when we measure perception, no matter of what of product or service of brand, we need a hundred and ten percent clean questions. That means that the questions cannot lead, they cannot guide the answer, and it's also who's asking, because most people will answer with more honesty when they are asked by an objective stakeholder. Customers, employees, partners, they must be asked different questions with each one's answer building the whole puzzle. If you don't do that, you will have blind spots, and as we all know, blind spots can be deadly now. Keeping that in mind, founders and marketing leaders should focus on short, simple, clean words that come to each of these stakeholders' minds when they think about that brand. That means asking them questions like if I ask you to describe brand with just one word, what would that word be? Or how do you feel brand is different from other suppliers you have worked with? Or what do you feel is missing? Or what would you like to add? See how I talk about how they feel, what they like, what they want. It's because this way you make them feel it's not about giving the right or wrong answers, and it's not about them trying to impress or please the brand they talk about. It's not even about the brand, it's about them. Now, this is the key when measuring perception, it's pivoting the point of view which will actually give you the answers you are looking for about the brand by not talking about the brand. I see that in my work, I see people who respond trying to give the answers that they think I want. They want to give a positive feedback, but that's not what I am looking for. And I always pivot and talk about them, what they need, what they struggle with, what they think, what they feel, and this makes them feel more open and they loosen up and they give me the answers that I'm actually looking for.

Joeri Billast 9:56

Yeah, asking the right questions and diving deeper.

Staying Distinct In The AI Era

Joeri Billast 10:00

And I think maybe you already answered a bit my next question, but in the world of today where AI can produce endless content, how can a brand protect its distinct voice instead of being more generic?

Roxana Hurdacas 10:15

The problem is many brands start with being generic in the first place. Now that happens either because the brand identity process has been skipped or because of fear. Because being generic means talking to more people, or they think so, which is safer, as chances to convert are higher, right? Well, that's wrong, as we both know. Other brands, on the other hand, dilute into generic because they didn't have or they lost their clarity or strategy. You asked me about content, and I talk about branding, because I think content is actually just a format and a distribution channel for brand identity and brand strategy. So the answer to your question, how can brands protect having distinct voices is having clarity on who they are and who they serve and why they should be chosen. If a brand knows this, creating not generic content becomes easy because their content is gonna be personal, it's gonna be about them, and it's gonna be personalized about their target audience. Does that make sense?

Joeri Billast 11:38

Absolutely.

Trust Built Through Actions

Joeri Billast 11:39

And you also have my book, The Future CMO. I recently gave a Dedicks talk around trust. It's one of the ideas in my book that trust becomes the real marketing advantage. And when content is abundant, content is everywhere. From your perspective, how does a company intentionally build trust as a brand asset?

Roxana Hurdacas 12:02

If you know who you are and whom you serve as a brand, you'll know what are the messages that your target audience needs, not wants, uh, and what actions you must take in order to help them. By doing that consistently over time, you will build trust. But the thing is that you must do what you say you'll do. Because disconnecting messages and actions is what actually breaks trust.

Crisis Messaging Needs Empathy And Data

Joeri Billast 12:34

You have written also about crisis communication and the need to mix empathy with data. Why is that combination so powerful when a company is under pressure?

Roxana Hurdacas 12:47

Because first we feel, then we think. Decisions are led by emotions and justified by rational, also in crisis. Now, data without empathy feels cold, and you will instinctively reject it, no matter how accurate or helpful that data is. Empathy without data, on the other hand, feels like lack of control. Like the brand has no idea what is happening or how to handle the crisis. That will make the audience feel fear because they need to know that you got this, that you know what you're doing. So you have to mix

Why Marketing Gets Cut Too Fast

Roxana Hurdacas 13:29

them.

Joeri Billast 13:29

Now, when markets shrink uh or customers become more careful, um why do many companies cut marketing at exactly the moment when the strategic communication matters most?

Roxana Hurdacas 13:46

Well, that hurts so much. It happens because when they are placed on immediate pressure on cost and cash flow and operations, marketing is looked at like something that can be postponed without real consequences, something that can wait until things settle down. There's I see reduce or eliminate what does not generate immediate results. They focus on what keeps the company afloat and basically reassure themselves and the marketer that everything else can be resumed later once the context becomes more predictable, more stable, normal. Only that for quite a while now, things have stopped returning to that version of normal that we used to rely on, and that made us feel we can predict things and made us feel secure.

Joeri Billast 14:52

So it's very recognizable in the markets these days.

Founder Personal Brand And B2B Creators

Joeri Billast 14:56

Now you also have a very strong view on personal brands and professional perception, Roxana. How should founders think about the relationship between their personal identity and the company brands they are building?

Roxana Hurdacas 15:12

We both know uh a marketer's favorite answer. Yes, it depends. It depends on company size. For startups, founders' personal brand will help the company's brand. Like it will act like a locomotive. There is an authority transfer from person to company that takes place and that helps the business. Now, once the company grows, the founder must disconnect the locomotive and let the brand gain and grow its own momentum. And there's also what I call B2B creators that companies any size can use. They are basically employees with strong personal brands that produce content. And by that I do not mean sharing the company's posts. People trust people more these days and not brands. They trust the people trust people.

Joeri Billast 16:11

People connect with people, of course, and the brand has to be built, but it's through the trust.

Serve The Audience Not The Script

Joeri Billast 16:17

Now, you know, I like to do public speaking, podcasting, moderating panels too. And I think you recently wrote somewhere that a good moderator should serve the audience, not the script. Now, how can marketers apply that same principle to events, to content, to brand conversations?

Roxana Hurdacas 16:37

That's a difficult one because once again you have to pivot the point of view and create events and content and brand conversations that your customers want, not you, the organizer, right? It's basically giving up control. And it sounds counterintuitive, it is, but it works because if you make it about them, they will feel and they will appreciate and they will come back for more. And this is what makes events and content successful.

Joeri Billast 17:16

Let's make it a bit more concrete.

Make B2B Events More Human

Joeri Billast 17:18

So, what should B2B events do differently if they want to become real relationship-building moments instead of forgettable conference agendas?

Roxana Hurdacas 17:28

I don't know. Stop acting like B2B events. I think one of the biggest issues in B2B is brands taking them way too seriously. Have a bit of fun and loosen up. It doesn't make you less professional, it makes you more human. And as I said just before, people trust people more than they trust brands these days. So I always say that it should be uh H to H, human to human, not B2B, as in boring to boring.

Joeri Billast 18:02

That's a memorable phrase.

Retreat Takeaways And Feeling Less Alone

Joeri Billast 18:04

Now, what was also memorable that you joined my Citral Synergies AI marketing retreat some time ago. And then later you wrote about relationships, memories, ideas that stayed with you. So looking back now, what impact did experience have on you personally and professionally?

Roxana Hurdacas 18:24

It's difficult to choose from, but I think the main idea that stayed with me is that I'm not alone. Consultant work makes me feel lonely many times. It makes me wonder if others face the same challenges and how they approach things. But in syntras, spending time with high-profile marketers, professionals, and talking to them and laughing with them and listening to birds with them made me feel like I was in the perfect place I was supposed to be. I loved it. And thank you for facilitating that experience for all of us, Yuri. And all those of you watching, you have to join Yuri's Retreat because it's an experience that will surprise you in a very good way, and that will help you a lot to see the path you can follow on your personal and professional journey. And they have sangria.

Joeri Billast 19:36

Thank you so much, Roxana. And also the inside joke about the birds. If people have been following some people that were at retreat, um, yeah, we did some bird listening with an app. And some of these things, you know, stay like stories that you can tell afterwards. Like you said, it shouldn't always be too serious and also have some fun elements in there, which also helps to build connection. Oxana, uh yeah, we are coming towards the end of the podcast episode. So

Where To Follow Roxana

Joeri Billast 20:03

you will give some things to think about for a lot of founders, for a lot of marketers. If they want to be in touch with you, if they want to follow you after they listen to this episode, where do you like me to send them?

Roxana Hurdacas 20:16

They can follow me on LinkedIn. Actually, today I am celebrating 12,000 followers. Uh speaking about having fun in B2B. Like three days ago, I decided that all of my LinkedIn posts are gonna be poems.

Joeri Billast 20:34

Okay.

Roxana Hurdacas 20:36

Like, why did you decide that, Roxana? And my answer is why not? It's it's the same value, but I'm just having fun because this way producing content is fun, and I hope my followers will like my poems. Maybe I'll become a poem author. How do you say that? A poet, a brand poet, and you will be able to buy my brand poetry.

Joeri Billast 21:04

Wow, yeah, I love it. Actually, it's a really fresh concept, I would say. You know, when you see on LinkedIn all those posts that look the same, because obviously people use a lot of AI, and then you have something fresh like that, Roxana. It's always in the action, right? Because people have ideas, but if you don't act on it, it stays just stays an idea. Well, Roxana, um thank you so much for joining me. I will put your links for your LinkedIn in the show notes, as always, as my listeners know. Thank you so much. It was really a pleasure to have you.

Roxana Hurdacas 21:37

Thank you.

Share Subscribe Review And Thanks

Joeri Billast 21:39

Guys, what a brilliant episode again. Today I am sure that you know people around you that could benefit from this episode or the founders, other marketers. So be sure to share this episode with them. If you're not yet following the show, this is a really good moment to hit the subscribe button. If you haven't given me a review yet, if you give me this. 5 stars. This really goes a long way. And of course, I'd love to see you back next time. Take care. A special thanks as well to Rio, the main sponsor of Feb3 CMR Stories. Supporting conversations at the intersection of Feb3 AI and the future of digital leadership.