Live From NFC Summit Lisbon

Lisa Gibbons 0:00

It's a constant extraction model that we've been basing the whole internet around. We need to redo that and reverse that trend so we're adding to the creators value.

Joeri Billast 0:11

Hi Lisa, how are you doing?

Lisa Gibbons 0:12

Hi Gori, lovely to be here, lovely to meet everyone.

Joeri Billast 0:16

Guys, I am here with Lisa. We are at NFC Summit in Lisbon at the Mii booth. My name is Judy Bilast. I'm your podcast host. It's a special episode today because we are recording in real life. And I'm with Lisa, head of marketing at Mii. Hi Lisa, how are you? I'm great.

Lisa Gibbons 0:36

It's sunny, I'm in Lisbon, it's beautiful out. Lovely to be here.

Joeri Billast 0:41

What I suggest, Lisa, is that we make a tour around the venue here. What do you think?

Lisa Gibbons 0:45

Yes, let's go check out NFC.

Joeri Billast 0:47

Yes, let's do that. It's quite calm today. The second day it's a bit calmer, so this means we have more space to walk, I guess. So Lisa, I'd always like to dive straight

Why Privacy Stops Being Niche

Joeri Billast 1:00

in. What first convinced you that privacy social media could become more than a niche alternative and actually matter for mainstream users?

Lisa Gibbons 1:11

Yeah, it's quite easy for me. I think sometimes for the last number of years, privacy was considered a niche thing that only tech savvy people understood the value of. But now that we realize our data is being scraped and we're being fed back advertisements and products associated with that data, we can understand more that we're there's a selling point of your privacy. People are being sold to basically.

Joeri Billast 1:40

Yeah, definitely. And most people say they care about privacy but still use platforms that track them, right? Yes. So what needs to change before privacy becomes a real user behavior and not just a value statement?

Lisa Gibbons 1:55

Yeah, that's hard because convenience wins every time. Convenience and easy access wins every time. But what we see on MiWii is that people want the freedom to choose, the freedom to speak their minds, the freedom to express themselves. And now more than ever they're finding they cannot do that, right? They're being tracked. What they say, what they're buying, who they're connected with. It's all about using that person's data, using that person's persona in order to feed them back things in the right way. And if they're saying something that the platform itself doesn't agree with, they're getting shadowbanded or back.

Joeri Billast 2:32

Absolutely. Yeah, actually, it's a real danger if you are an entrepreneur or a content creator and you build your audience on one of those platforms. You can be shut down like that. And it's not like you can call Facebook to explain I had this problem with the client myself. They did nothing wrong, but the algorithm decided that they had to shut down.

Lisa Gibbons 2:54

100%. Mewe is anti that behavior. We want people to have the freedom to express themselves, have the freedom to create communities and share in a very organic manner. Going back to the days of social networking when you intentionally looked for friends and communities rather than found them because you're being entertained or you're being fed what you thought you wanted, but maybe you didn't want.

Joeri Billast 3:19

Yeah. Because they decide for you, right? What you have to see and what you have to believe. Now, Mii positions itself around no tracking, no targeted algorithms and user control. So, how does that change the way communities grow compared to the traditional social platforms?

Organic Communities Without Algorithm Control

Lisa Gibbons 3:40

It's very different. It is completely organic, and when you come to Mii sometimes people are like, Oh, oh, how do I find my people here? How do I find my my communities and the groups that I want to connect with? So we have 700,000 groups on MiWii. We're very community-based, so we we don't target you at all. You select your interests when you come in, you select up to four interests, and then you can decide how to find those groups that you're interested in. For example, I love toy photography. I joined the toy photography group, people that love dogs. There's a lot of people that love dogs. I think we have 40,000 people in one of our dog groups. People all over the world have found Mii and they find it that they're not being tracked, but they're organically growing and they're connecting with people from all over the world in a more organic way. Again, going back to the way we used to do social networking, intentionally looking for connections and like-minded people. So it's lovely, it's nice to be there.

Joeri Billast 4:35

Yeah, I created an account myself actually. I had an account and I activated it again. So I and yes, of course, the app has evolved, and I like it that you can indicate your interest and decide for yourself, you know what you want, and not that the algorithms decide what you can see.

Marketing Without Tracking Data

Joeri Billast 4:54

Now, for marketers and founders, what becomes harder when you remove algorithmic manipulation and paid targeting, and what becomes more honest?

Lisa Gibbons 5:05

Let's be honest, Yuri. Marketing without that data is so hard. Everything is hard. Like how can you market like you would in Google search or display or have those like the the code that they embed into the background of landing pages, etc. So a marketer's job becomes very hard but also allows us to be very creative. So as a marketer myself, I'm gone completely back to grassroots and very product driven. So the product itself has to speak to the communities, has to speak to the users, we've added minting groups as NFTs for verified ownership, we've added boosting and we've added uh tipping content creators on the platform. So we want the platform to speak for itself, basically. And that referrals will be the best way to market it.

Joeri Billast 5:55

Yeah, I like that about the tipping. So if someone makes a good post or you stand behind it, other people or yourself, you can give it thumbs up or you can just really tip it, tip them, right?

Lisa Gibbons 6:07

Supporting the community, supporting the creators is everything on MIBI. We want to show that they have ownership over their content, that they own a part of the platform because they're the ones contributing to the platform. I think that's like really far removed from what we did in the past. Yeah. Right? What we did in the past was like, we take from you. We can extract everything. You put this there, you you give us your audience, you give us your fan base, and we take as much as we can from that community that you've created. And now we're trying to turn it on its head and say, no, every time you add something to the platform, you're contributing and you're getting something out of that value that you add. So that's where me is very, very different, and that's why we're very much part of Web3 communities supporting centralization and that whole process.

Joeri Billast 6:54

Yeah. Yeah, creators, and I think you said it somewhere, uh, are the lifeline of social networks. So, what do creators actually need from platforms today that the legacy networks still fail to provide?

Creator Ownership Over Content Value

Lisa Gibbons 7:10

I think they need trust. They need to feel like they can trust the platform, and that the platform isn't all about extraction. Taking things from you, taking your data, taking your community, taking your likes, taking your advertisement revenue, taking 40% from every every time you download something. It's it's a constant extraction model that we've been basing the whole internet around. We need to redo that and reverse that trend so we're adding to the creators value. They don't have to constantly rely on brand partnerships and pitching to brand in order to feel valued. They need to feel a part of the platform and grow organically with the platform. So I'm delighted to be a part of the Mimi team that we're supporting that effort and really hold true to those values.

Joeri Billast 7:57

Yeah, coming again at your boot. Lots of things are going on at the boots. That's me boots here. It's always busy, people are interested. People are interested and it's really nice. I must say that you can have a conversation. Like I said, you are not going to an event and speak really to people or and really have an impact and really understand. Like I think it was the founder of was speaking yesterday on stage, the CEO was speaking to our stage yesterday, and it's very accessible. But now we are recording this podcast, and yeah, you mentioned already Web3, NFC is you know, a Web3 event, if you can

Web3 Tools That Replace Vanity Metrics

Joeri Billast 8:33

say. Mimi has integrated wallets, and you mentioned already the tipping mechanisms. How do you see the shift from vanity metrics to proof of value changing the greater autonomy?

Lisa Gibbons 8:47

Yeah, we say on Mimi that um we want to kill the like button. We called our talk yesterday that Carlos Bettencourt, the CEO, did was called the death of the like button. We're we're we're we're moving away from that, right? We have introduced, as I said before, four key utilities into Mimi, four key features that the existing creators can avail of today. When they join the platform, people will be able to tip your content, tip your profile, you'll be able to mint your group as an NFT. That will be tied ownership. So you own the group, you can take it with you, you can transfer the group where you want to, you can sell the group if you don't want to own it or manage it anymore, and someone else wants to take over. We feel that's a very powerful tool. And then boosting as well, so you can boost your group to be featured in certain areas of the platform. So we're wholly concentrated now in putting the Web3 mechanics and that tooling back into the maybe users' hands to allow them to play with this new technology and to feel like the fun elements are coming and being created for them. Not for them to use, but for them specifically, that they can benefit from it and create values in it.

Joeri Billast 9:57

And you really use the power of Web3, where Web3 is meant for, you know, the ownership, the tipping mechanisms. We are here at the boot. I never heard you mention mentioning Web3, but it's just technology behind it, and that's the way how it should be, right? Not speaking about the technology, but what it can do for you. Also, some flowers here at the booth. What is the idea about the flowers?

Lisa Gibbons 10:22

Well, flowers are an act of kindness, but they're also something you do in social occasion when you want to give a gift to a friend, give a gift to a family member, give a gift to a member of the community. So gifting flowers is associated with being social. So we thought it was a very powerful metaphor for what we're trying to do.

Joeri Billast 10:39

I love that. It's something really refreshing when you come, it's also welcoming. It shows the warmth. When I arrived here yesterday, you see the smiles of the people, you see the flowers, the smiles, the sun, of course, also helps, but it's a really welcoming atmosphere here. And I think Biwi is also really a welcoming platform because, as you said, you start directly by asking a few questions, but what is your interest without imposing anything?

Measuring Connection Over Likes

Joeri Billast 11:08

So, yeah, if likes reach and followers becomes less meaningful, what should marketers then start measuring instead, Lisa?

Lisa Gibbons 11:18

I think it's important for us as marketers and as brand people that understand the value of brands to understand the value of connections.

Joeri Billast 11:27

Yeah.

Lisa Gibbons 11:28

One connection can give you so much more value than 50 likes.

Joeri Billast 11:34

Absolutely.

Lisa Gibbons 11:35

One community, joining a community and engaging with that community can give you so much more than a hundred followers on X. What we need to do is get back to that relationship-based approach to marketing, relationship-based approach to selling products. To have that like affiliation with your audience and understand what your consumer really, really wants. On MiWii, we're very lucky, we have a very loyal community that are participating in the community. So we have groups that are beta testers, we have community members like Selena and Kirsten and David and people that have been ambassadors for MiWii for years that know that we won't go away from the values of privacy that they enjoy. They know that we're not there to track them and extract everything for them. And those community members, they basically market for Miwi. They sell me, they promote Mimi naturally because we understand them and we listen to them. So if you ask, as marketers, we should be asking a lot of questions all the time. And listening, you know. So sometimes you ask the question and you never you just forget the answer.

Joeri Billast 12:38

I love that. Yeah, the listening, because social media platform doesn't listen, changes all the time, algorithms. And you know, and people are getting frustrated. So uh yeah, really good that there is an alternative. You mentioned we mentioned trust. Uh I have my book here with me, guys, if you are now watching the video version of this podcast episode. My book, The Future CMO, I will leave one here also for the MIVI team. Thank you. Here you see, it's also about trust and visibility. Also, community is a really important topic in the book. And so in my book, I talk about trust becoming one of the most important currencies in modern marketing. And so, what does trust look like on a privacy-first social platform?

How Privacy Builds Trust Over Time

Lisa Gibbons 13:26

We're lucky because trust is built into what we do. If you have privacy as one of your core values and you're selling the idea of your platform being private, the users coming in know that they trust you already. So you have a little bit of that trust built up, but you do have to build it up over time as well.

Joeri Billast 13:43

Yeah.

Lisa Gibbons 13:44

Constantly communicating with them, constantly talking and ensuring them that you're not moving away from those values, bringing them on the journey when you're creating new features, new products, bringing them on the journey with you. I find that that is the most rewarding way to market the new features on Mimi, definitely today. And as well, I think we may be over-reliant on the data algorithm approach because listen, like, I don't want people telling me and reminding me that I'm getting older. And this is what's happening now. People, the algorithms are understanding who we are. Yeah. But they're feeding us things that we may not want. I don't want age cream. No, thank you. I know that I need that, but I do it in private.

Joeri Billast 14:25

Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Gibbons 14:25

You know, so it's that interesting way that marketers can understand their audience, but don't necessarily have to, you know, you can tailor it in a nicer, friendlier manner rather than pushing stuff down people's throats. Bring people along for the journey. That's what

Creators On The Fringe Belong

Lisa Gibbons 14:41

I see. See?

Joeri Billast 14:41

Creative digital culture. What or why do you think that this audience is especially relevant for maybe right now?

Lisa Gibbons 14:51

I've always loved this audience. That's been the honest truth, I've wanted to support this conference and in particular John and the creators that come to this conference for a long time. Um and I would support any creator conference as a social network.

Joeri Billast 15:04

Yeah.

Lisa Gibbons 15:04

But what I would say is that some creators feel like they're on the fringe. And I want to say that a lot of people feel like they're on the fringe. So when you join a social network, whether as a lot of users that might feel like they're on the fringe of society or have niche audiences and niche communities, this is perfect for them, and it's perfect for them to enjoy immersing themselves in new technology, engaging, fun artists. I think it's going to be eye-opening for the Mimi users when we feed them back some of the content that we've created from this conference. So I'm excited about being here. Really excited.

Joeri Billast 15:38

Excited also to be here. You mentioned the word immersive immersion, immersive. It makes me think of metaverse. And you have a background in tourism, metaverse, community experiences. Do you think that digital communities and real-world gatherings will start influencing each other over the next few years?

Lisa Gibbons 15:56

Well, the funny thing about the metaverse and immersive experiences online, I feel it can bring us that physical touch when we can't reach it, right? So we have a lot of users based in India and Malaysia and the Philippines and other communities out there. I want to say hi to them when they watch this. But Australia is a big country for us as well. We have a lot of users in Australia. And what I would say is, I'm based in Ireland. I want to reach them somehow, right? And that if I can immerse myself in an immersive experience like what was being offered in the sandbox and decentraland and spatial and those types of areas, it becomes that bit closer than the 2D Google me. It is that bit more

When Online Worlds Meet Real Life

Lisa Gibbons 16:35

attached to them. So for example, I met an artist last week and they were doing an immersive show, and it was a Berlin and Ireland show. So the artist was based in Berlin, but it was an Irish artist, but they were talking to people who were in the room on the headsets in Ireland. Yeah. So it was fascinating. We felt way more connected. And I feel like this is only the start of that. This new technology is going to take a long time to get us used to it and get playful with it. But as creators and a lot of the creators here today, I think they're starting to really play with it and interact with it and have fun with it, and that will only continue. And we hope to have some of those experiences, immersive experiences, as events on Mimi to get people enjoying them, hopefully, in the future.

Joeri Billast 17:21

I would love that because you know when Metaverse started, you know, be around and Facebook changed their name. And at that point, I organized myself events in the metaverse. Like we did like mini TED Talks there, we did like an AI art exhibition there, it was on the spatial platform most of the time, and we went around and we connected with people from Australia, from the US, from the UK, from Europe, from actually from everywhere. And I really loved that experience because then you connect the verse and then in real life and then on the social, so I really loved that. Now talking about immersion, I have my retreat here in Portugal in Cintra, Cintra Synergies. The first edition was in April, the next one will be in November, and we explore how AI marketing can become more human and not less, because that's a challenge these days, of course. How do you see or where do you see AI helping social platforms? And where should platforms be careful?

Lisa Gibbons 18:27

This is very hard, right? Because we're on the cusp of this technology really exploding and everyone's using it. I'm using it. You know, I use it to prepare some of the conferences that I attend and some of the speeches that I do, but it's coming out very similar. So you have to be careful to lose that authentic self, your authentic self, your language, your colloquial accent, right? I'm from Ireland, I've lost half my accent. I speak to Americans every day of the week, but I I love and adore and I want to treasure it. So when I hear the Irish accent or colloquial dialects of the Irish

AI Without Losing Your Voice

Lisa Gibbons 18:59

accent, I automatically go to it and I think it's more endearing. So you want that. You want to hold that really tight and hold on to that identity really tightly. Outside of that, I think it's very useful for saving some time. If you were spending all day and all night creating a business plan for a marketing strategy, it definitely saves you some time. But we can't rely on it. We need it to keep our creative juices flowing.

Joeri Billast 19:22

That's where the human comes in, and I love that. And therefore, you know, these three life experiences like we did in Sintra. We had people from South Africa, from Ireland, from Romania, from UK, from the US, and people from Portugal too, putting everyone together and it really made uh it really made a difference. While we were chatting here at the booth, there's still people are passing by, they are curious, they are wondering what we are doing. But uh yeah, you know, I love being on social media, connecting there in communities, but also meeting people in real life. And then if when you know that your data is yours, that really makes all the difference. Now, Lisa, if marketers and entrepreneurs are now listening to this or watching our episodes and they want to build communities that are more trusted, more human, less dependent on algorithms, what should they start doing differently today?

Lisa Gibbons 20:19

Two things. First things first, join MIBE because there's 700,000 communities there waiting to be explored and waiting to for new members. So that's one thing. And the second thing is ask questions. Right. Ask questions and really listen. Not the market research. Don't don't outsource your market research. So a lot of people like they use companies and they're outsourcing the market research to a third-party agency or you know someone that's far removed from where their users are at. You won't know the value of your user journey or how your user wants to interact with your features or products until you ask the questions and truly listen to the answers. That

Practical Steps And New Feature Rollout

Lisa Gibbons 20:58

would be my main piece of advice, especially for startups.

Joeri Billast 21:01

No. Here at NFC Summit, I'm really excited to have this conversation with you, but I'm also always asking on my podcast episodes, Lisa, what are you now the most excited about? I know that Meewi is launching new features, so tell me.

Lisa Gibbons 21:16

Oh great. Where can I start? We've we've launched a lot. We've done a massive product rollout in the last few months. So we launched our digital wallet and we have 650,000 people with wallets now on the platform. Then we launched minting of the group NFT, verified groups on MiWi. Then we launched tipping so you can tip your content creators on MiWi. And just yesterday we launched a brand new watch feed. So our watch feed is now live as of yesterday. Please join and take a look, have some fun, immerse yourself on MiWii, make new contacts, and don't be afraid to join some of the groups and communities there. I love your feedback. Again, I'll listen to you if you want to reach out. I'm Lily on Mimi. You'll find me at Lily, and I answer all my DMs and my chats in there. So feel free to reach out to me anytime.

Joeri Billast 22:03

Yeah, that was of course a question I was going to ask you if people want to reach out to you. If they are on Mee, they make an account. It's free, they can follow you Lily. You can find me too, by the way. I have the same username on MeBi as on the other platforms, just my name. If people are still on the fence, where would you like me to send?

Lisa Gibbons 22:24

Oh, yeah, you can find me on the other socials too, right? At LinkedIn. I just don't hang out there. Okay. But you find me on the socials and it's Lisa at Meebi.com for my email address. I'm really happy to engage with people about their curiosities around social media, marketing, AI, and exploring this future of marketing together.

Joeri Billast 22:42

Amazing. As my listeners know, Lisa, there are always show notes. There is a blog article. You can find the links in there if you want if you want to read about everything that is being said today. Also, I will put my links there. You can also engage with me on the platform because I will be building my community there too. Really excited about that. Lisa, it was really a pleasure to have you on the show today. Absolutely lovely. Love being here. Thank you all for listening and watching. Guys, what an amazing episode here in Lisbon at the NFC Summit. If you think that this episode is useful for people around you, other entrepreneurs, marketers, maybe your neighbor, be sure to share this episode with them. If you're not yet following the show, well, this is a really good moment to hit the subscribe button. If you haven't given your video yet with these five stars, this really goes one way. And of course, we'll love to see you back next time. Take care. A special thanks as well to Leo, the main sponsor of Web3 CMR Stories. Support the conversations at the intersection of Web3 AI and the future of digital leadership.