Welcome And The Capital Question

Bashar Al Madhoun 0:00

At the end of the day, we evaluate the human first. Okay, if I like you, I like your behavior, I like the way how you explain the things, I like the way how you really understand it, and you being very clear,

Joeri Billast 0:12

hello, everyone, and welcome to the Web3 CMO Stories podcast. My name is Joeri Bilast. I'm your podcast host. And today, I want to explore a question what matters to almost every founder building in Web3. Where is the serious capital actually moving? My guest today is Bashar Al Madhoun, CEO of the Almak Group in Dubai, with a background spanning investment, compliance, risk management, digital assets, and AI. Hello, Bashar. Welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Bashar Al Madhoun 0:46

Hi, I'm good. Thank you so much. How are you?

Joeri Billast 0:49

Very good. Very excited to have this conversation with you, yeah, to have you on the show. and as my listeners know, Bashar, and I know you love that too, I dive straight in, coming right to the point.

Bashar Al Madhoun 1:03

Go ahead.

Joeri Billast 1:03

Yeah, so you recently joined, a panel, yeah, where people asked you where VCs and funds are actually investing in Web3. But what did you hear there or see there in Kuala Lumpur that actually generally challenged your assumptions about where the market is heading?

Why Web3 Talk Turns Practical

Bashar Al Madhoun 1:22

Thank you so much, for having me today. first of all, let me tell you something. what, genuinely, challenged my assumption in Kuala Lumpur was how practical the Web3, conversation has become. I expected, a lot of, the discussion to be focused on technology itself, and instead... You know, I was expecting people to talk about crypto, purely about crypto, because this is what is nowadays people, connecting Web3 to. but, I saw founders and investors talking much more about how Web3 can solve real problem, and then how, you know, how they can actually find a solution, for the, the current, business' challenges. And then, there was discuss about the digital identity, ownership, payments, data infrastructure, and the new models of collaboration. And this something that I saw little bit different, and it's remind me that, Web3 is not, one market, and it doesn't, develop at the same speed everywhere. I mean, in Southeast Asia, I saw a very, strong, emphasis, on adoption and, practical use cases, that made me rethink where some of the most interesting opportunities, may come from. I mean, the future of Web3 may actually be built by companies that don't, usually talk about Web3. They simply use the technology to make an existing, process more efficient, transparent, and, accessible

Joeri Billast 3:00

Yeah, I love that answer. And actually, Bashar, that's what I'm seeing too, huh? it's about in it for people, you know? What, what is the value of the solution? When you're speaking with businesses or consumers, you're not speaking about the technology because that's people, really the Web3 crowd, really the technical people like that. But, you know, other people in my listeners to the podcast, they are mixed. Most of them just want to know what's in it for them. When you pay with your Visa card or Mastercard at the store, people are not wondering what is the technology behind. Now, of course, you are from, from an interesting point of view as an, as an investor, huh? and my next

The Five Minute Investor Filter

Joeri Billast 3:37

question would be, when serious investors, when they look at the Web3 opportunity today, what separates a project that immediately earns a second conversation from the one that is mentally rejected within the first few minutes?

Bashar Al Madhoun 3:52

It's a very interesting question, and then the answer can be very long. but, let me talk about something very interesting, and I think usually the people talk about it in a very technical way. But, for me, I give usually the clear answer. It's just one answer, the clarity. You know? I mean, can the founder really explain the problem, the customer, the solution, the business model, without hiding behind that kind of technical language, I call it, you know, and this decentralization language that we hear everywhere. And then, usually the companies, in my opinion, that can earn a second conversation, usually they focus to meaningful problem, evidence of adoption, and team that understand what opportunities and risk. And why I mention team, because, most of the companies nowadays, they don't really focus to the team. They focus more to sell some kind of PPT presentation or something that, they think that our focus and what we are looking at, "Oh, wow, the project is nice." Yeah, it's nice, and thank you for giving us a good presentation, but we also evaluate the team. We see, is your team really capable to do this project? Not only how good your project is. You know, you can have a good project, you can have an amazing presentation, you can have an amazing explanation, but you don't really have a problem, or you don't really solve a problem. I'm talking about today. I'm not talking about one year ago or two years ago. I'm talking about today, twenty twenty-six. Yeah. If you don't have a problem that you really solve, you know, if you really don't have a good team, a good structure... So of course, I call it a five... You know, I, I give a five minute to each project. five minute if, if they cannot really, answer these three things, they don't have a problem to solve, they don't have a proper team to manage with a good experience. When I say good experience, I'm not asking for twenty, thirty years of experience, but at least people who understand what they are talking about, you know? The very important thing is, did the people really understand what they are talking about or not? So-

Joeri Billast 6:08

make, makes a lot of sense. and I've been, you know, at conferences too and, and, and listening to investor panels, and it's, it's indeed something that they said that the team is important, the seniority of the team, can they actually do what they say? But also, Bashar, and I'm curious to hear your, your opinion about that, the personal brand of the leaders, of the founder of that company, is that something, a factor that plays a role for you?

Personal Brand And Human First

Bashar Al Madhoun 6:34

Yes, of course. That's for sure, because in the end of the day, the project is just a project. If you don't have a leader with a good personality, leaders who have the good background, leaders who really understand what they are doing and what they are actually talking about, then the... doesn't make sense even if the project is a billion-dollar project, you know? I mean, At the end of the day, we evaluate the human first. This is one of my favorite thing. I always say that we evaluate the human first. Okay, if I like you, I like your behavior, I like the way how you explain the things, I like the way how you really understand it, and you being very clear, that's why I mentioned earlier in the early, question that clarity is very important, right? so if you are very clear, very honest about it, then why not?

Joeri Billast 7:25

Yeah. Yeah, makes a lot of sense because you m-- the thing that you say about clarity, for me, it also has to do with trust. You know, I'm a marketer. This is also one of the things in my book, in an AI world, that trust is important. maybe look now f-from the other side that, okay, we said clarity is important, the team, the leaders. but

Growth Red Flags And Governance

Joeri Billast 7:48

from your experience across investment, compliance, and risk, are there any red flags that marketers and founders may overlook because they are too focused on growth?

Bashar Al Madhoun 8:00

There is actually. I mean, one of the biggest, red flags is when the growth is, measured only by the visibility. You know, a large community, maybe immersive social media or, or, or immersive social presence, strong coverage. they look very good, you know. but I look at the quality behind the numbers. It's just as simple as that. Who are the, the actual users? Are they coming back? Are the enterprises actually adopting the product? Is there measurable value, being created? And then I look to the governance. This is one of my favorite part. I look to not the people who only hide behind decentralization, but people who really have a proper, structure. They have a very proper agreements. They have a proper setup. when I say proper setup, I don't ask the people, for example, to be, in Dubai, for example, because we are based in Dubai. No, but at least they have the proper legal structure and then the proper, protection because risk is very important when I'm-- when, when we are giving you the money or the, the investors giving you the money. They have to understand clearly, and then, I mean, who's, who's, who's actually regulating you, right? Where this money goes. how you gonna deal with the money. so this is, this is, this is one of the things that usually the, the leaders or founders, they miss. And then, you know, how is the data protected? This is-- I mean, let me be very clear, how the conflict managed. There are so many questions I can, I can always, ask. And then unfortunately, for maybe every ten project, there is one or two who only can answer that. So, you know, this is some of the red flags that so far I see it in most of the project that we usually get or at least in my experience, the, the project that we usually meet and then talk about and then see. You know, this is the questions that we usually ask.

Joeri Billast 10:08

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense when you say it like that, yeah. Compliance is often treated as friction in Web3, but regulation and strong governance actually become part of a company's competitive advantage and their brand story

Bashar Al Madhoun 10:27

Yes, that's right

Joeri Billast 10:29

Now for me as a marketer, in the world of AI today, it's important to create trust because AI can generate almost everything, can create claims and so on.

Trust Signals In An AI Era

Joeri Billast 10:41

so my question for you is, from an investor's perspective, what signals make you generally trust a founder or project today?

Bashar Al Madhoun 10:50

That's a good question. Okay, for me, a trust, come from the, consistency between what someone say and what they actually do. I mean, we, we mentioned that earlier.

Joeri Billast 11:03

Yeah.

Bashar Al Madhoun 11:03

I pay, a particular attention to how founders talk about, uncertainty. if everything is, presented as perfect, I'm usually less comfortable because I believe that not everything is perfect, right? We will always have that kind of challenges. I mean... And then, you know, I, I really appreciate the founders who say, "This is what we have achieved. This is what we are still trying to prove. These are the, the risk that we have. This is the ma-- the, the, the major, things that we, focus to. this is how we manage the risk. This is how we do the things. this is what we are expected to have." You know? Things at least can give you the feeling of, these people really understand what they are doing, right? They really know where they are going. Not only a talk and presentation is a very nice things, and we know, as you mentioned earlier, AI nowadays can generate almost everything, right? A nice presentation too. and then we also know that, so we really appreciate, when the people really understand and respect our intelligence, right? That we know that AI make it. So that's okay. We are totally okay with that because we understand some people, they are not good at making presentations. For me, personally, I respect people who has a very straightforward presentation, tell me directly, and I think you also know that about me. Just go directly to the point, how you're gonna manage the risk, how you can deal with all the things, what do you expect, how do you expect to do it, what is your plan, what is your roadmap? All these things really matter and can build the trust

Joeri Billast 12:48

Yeah. Yeah, I love that how, how you put it, of course, that respect indeed the intelligence of others, you know, whether it be an investor or whether it be a, a customer or client or people today know that AI is there. Now, what's also interesting, Basar, that, You work across Dubai and increasingly Southeast Asia and we have been in meetings with, you know, people from the US and so on, so the culture is different in how they approach, how they do the conversations.

Dubai Versus Southeast Asia

Joeri Billast 13:16

And I'm curious to hear from you, what are the difference that you are seeing how founders, investors, ecosystem think about Web3 opportunities in those regions and maybe specifically, Dubai and Southeast Asia?

Bashar Al Madhoun 13:30

Okay. For sure it is different. this is something that we know. But let me tell you something, Dubai, has a very strong international institutional mindset. there is a lot of focus on building scalable businesses, attracting global capital, and creating infrastructure that can support international markets. But in Southeast Asia, I see a very, strong, culture, talent, and then especially talent, but they have lack of, capital. They don't really have the capital. But, why, why I am, I'm aggressively active in, Southeast Asia is because, you know, I see a very, very strong, culture, and they are really focusing on the practical, adoption. founder, or at least the people that I meet, are often very close to the problem they are trying to solve, because they are operating in, in rapidly, changing digital-driven markets. so, when we talk about Dubai and Southeast Asia, we say that, what connect both region, is that, conversation has become more, sophisticated. People are asking less, "Is Web3, exciting?" And more about, "What problem does this solve? Who needs it? And, can this become a sustainable business?" That's a very health-- a, a very, very healthy, evolution for the, the industry

Joeri Billast 14:59

Yeah.

Bashar Al Madhoun 15:00

So for me, again, both of the market, they have the difference, but in my opinion, they both complete each other. So we all want each other. And then the vision of Dubai, was something that I really respect and appreciate that, Dubai connect the world. and as you know also our, our group, we are also growing. currently, we are holding more than thirty-five companies in Almakkyoub Group. So we also look to every new market, include US, Europe, Southeast Asia, as a market that have really difference. But when we select countries, we select countries that they really have the talent, they really can produce the talent, and but they really have some kind of challenges in terms of raising capital or, or having that some kind of, governance issue maybe or, or, or, you know, licensing issue like AI. Nowadays, not every country give AI license or, or Web3 or even crypto or whatever license allow you to do research or developing or something. So that's how we usually evaluate, and that's what we see. We see that Dubai and, and, can connect the world and really can connect, the talent

Joeri Billast 16:14

Yeah. yeah, indeed. I saw that you are really growing, so, congrats on the growth, for Almak Group. You just mentioned AI, you mentioned, the real world value, utility, of Web3. Now,

When AI Plus Web3 Is Real

Joeri Billast 16:29

in the pitches you get or you hear, AI and Web3 are increasingly combined together. How do you see that convergence of Web3 and AI? How do you see that is really representing real economic value? And how much, yeah, is simply, those, those two narratives just being packaged together?

Bashar Al Madhoun 16:51

AI and Web3. For me, they are all-- I mean, they are two, powerful technologies, but putting them together doesn't automatically create a powerful business, right? I mean, AI might provide intelligence, automation, or, you know, can provide some kind of powerful things. But Web3 might provide digital ownership, verification, identity, transparency. but if those-- of, of those, capabilities solve a problem better together than, separately, there is real economy value. But if the pitch simply, contain both term because they are currently attractive, you know, sounds very innovative, to investor, then more, narrative than, substance. Technology should follow the problem, not the other way around. So this is, this is my, my really believing about that.

Joeri Billast 17:47

Yeah. but a great, a great point. Now I'm doing a retreat here in Sintra where we're always discussing what is possible with AI. I'm doing one in November. And one of the questions is how can AI extend us, that we should not be afraid. From your perspective, to judge, yeah, investments, to judge businesses, can AI help you or make you better in, decision-making, more confident?

Bashar Al Madhoun 18:15

Thank you

Using AI Without Letting It Decide

Bashar Al Madhoun 18:16

for the question. As a very, very interesting question that mostly the people also asked. let me very-- be very clear. AI can significantly improve investment judgment by helping investors, process much larger amount of information, right? but it doesn't decide. It's only support. it can identify patterns, compare markets, maybe analyze documentation, monitor some of the development. but the danger is that AI can make an uncertain answer. That's why you need to watch it. But back to your question, can it really help? Yes, of course, but I cannot just let it decide on behalf for it. Because, in the end of the day, I can give AI any kind of project and then ask AI to give me, you know, evaluation for this. My own opinion and what I have already tried with multiple different AI tools, most of the project is a successful project, right? Because it collect data from everywhere, so most of the project will give you some positive things. But, in the other hand also, some of the things that, we might get from AI as evaluation, it's, something that doesn't make sense. Maybe something new for the AI, right? When we talk nowadays about robotics, we talk about something beyond the power of AI because as what-- as we, we all know that AI is not something that, you know, it's already the maximum level, cannot think, right? we have only a data there that is just, you know, check the data and give us an answer. This is in a simple way. I'm not going so technical on that, right? So yeah, of course, it can help, but it can help in a very, very small areas. We cannot say that AI will judge. So if you take your project and sit it in a-- in, in any kind of, chatbot, you know, and then you ask to evaluate to make it very interesting for investors, eh, it doesn't work, you know? It doesn't really work because we really read. But maybe if I have a thirty pages, I ask the AI to maybe make it in thirteen pages to have a look directly on it. If it's interesting, then I will take it and read all your thirty pages, you know? So this is how we usually do. But we don't leave everything to AI to judge, to... or, or to even give an opinion. So we don't really consider AI as an opinion. we take AI only to make our life easier, especially if I have 10 projects. I'm not gonna, you know, read 10 projects and waste 24 hour of my, of my life just to read 10 project. Maybe five of them is just something that, with all due respect, is just something useless. right? With all due respect, of course, to the project, yeah, but maybe useless for us to, to, to look at it, right? Maybe it's interesting for someone else. that's why, that's why, something that people should know that we don't usually let AI decide on behalf of us. I don't think there is any investor, or any investment company let AI decide on behalf of them. I don't think so. But usually they just use it for a simple thing, you know, just give me some kind of com-compare some of the details, verify some of the data, and give me some links to verify that. That's it. It's just as simple as that

Joeri Billast 21:34

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, because AI is really strong in, you know, finding patterns to see, you know, is ev- but, but to judge, and I'm glad you say this. This is also what my TEDx talk is about, you know, that, that trust if also you want to work with trust, that's something that AI cannot generate. You know, the judgment, human judgment stays really important. I see, you know, that sometimes, you know, banks decide on loan based on the computer decides, and that the, the person cannot judge anymore because the computer already says what the answer is. but that's another story. But I love your vision about that. So yeah, we are coming towards the end of the episode, Bashar. I'm also curious to ask you, the question about the future, of course. If you

Build Small, Protect Trust, Scale

Joeri Billast 22:21

were now advising an entrepreneur, someone who is building for the next three, five years

Bashar Al Madhoun 22:26

years

Joeri Billast 22:26

rather than for the next crypto cycle, I would say, what would you tell them? What would you tell them to build, to prove, to protect before they even start to think to raise capital?

Bashar Al Madhoun 22:39

Don't look to solve very big problems, you know. Because very big problems, there is also thousands of people think how to solve it, right? Think about even small things nowadays, okay? A small thing, a simple, you know, I, I cannot tell you... I mean, very simple things in our life, you know. If you can make it easy for us, if you can find something to solve it, this is considered innovative. Build something that still can, can have that kind of, of, of power, I can say this sentence. what I mean by this kind of power or something that powerful, I mean that make sure when you build, you really protect and again and again and again, protect the important thing for you, the things that really give you the good reputation and trust. This is the golden advice that I give to everyone, even to myself, to my team here. This is our vision. This is Dubai vision, okay? Make sure you have a proper governance structure. You protect your data, protect your IP. You have a proper, security, space. You have the, you know, the regulatory, position is very, very clear, I can say. And then you make sure you protect your reputation. This is something that we usually don't hear, but this is my very golden advice. Protect that and make sure you are really having the good team, strong team, okay? And honest team. That's

Where To Find Bashar And Closing

Bashar Al Madhoun 24:11

it.

Joeri Billast 24:12

Well, that's a brilliant advice at the end of this podcast episode, Bashar, and I think a lot of listeners will get a lot of value out of that. So if now people want to know more, about you, about what you're doing with Almak Group, where would you like me to send them?

Bashar Al Madhoun 24:30

LinkedIn. I have my LinkedIn. I mean, my LinkedIn always open for everyone, and I respond. Sometime I'm late little bit, but I, I always respond to the people anyway. So whoever, I'm more than happy to help the people, to support the people. And to also, you know, whoever, have proper plans, I mean, I am more than welcome

Joeri Billast 24:54

Okay. Thank you so much to,

Bashar Al Madhoun 24:57

you. Thank you

Joeri Billast 24:58

share all of that, Bashar. It was really a pleasure to have you on the show today

Bashar Al Madhoun 25:02

So much. Thank you so much

Joeri Billast 25:05

Guys, what an amazing episode. A unique episode, I would say. I am sure that you know people around you, founders or maybe with a project or with plans looking for investments or people that are just curious about what is happening in Dubai and everything that Basar shared. sure to share this episode with them. If you're not yet listening to the show well or subscribed to the show, I would say this is a really good moment, yeah, to hit the subscribe button. If you haven't given me a review yet, if you give me these five stars, this really goes a long way. And of course, I would love to see you back next time. Take care! PS I also want to give a shout-out to RYO, my main podcast sponsor. They launched a virtual hackathon and you can find out more on their socials